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Subject: Div invasion off of SCS rss

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Doug Harned
United States
New Mexico
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I've read several game reports recently and everybody seems to be using the rule that divs can invade from SCS. My friend and I are trying to decide if this is a rule we want to use for an upcoming campaign game.

I've got two comments that hopefully people can provide insight on.
First is seems patently unrealistic. I can't see how a division can be transported by a battteship or cruiser and make an invasion against a hostile force. Is there a historical precendent for this? Dieppe? Norway?

Second: What is the effect on play balance? It seems that invasions will be much more likely. However, it also may be true that it is needed because when playing with divs the person doing the invasion needs another way to get divs into the battle (i.e. help offset the divs on defense).

Any thoughts or comment would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
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Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
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Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
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On realism just remember that ship counters in WIF also include lots of smaller vessels - oilers, destroyers, etc. So why not some transports?

Also this helps facilitate smaller-scale operations. Most amphibious invasions in WW2 were not at the corps/army scale. Dieppe and Norway, for two.

It doesn't have a great impact on play balance. It helps Japan early on which is fine. It helps the US and CW later during the counter-offensive. Italy and Germany can do DIV invasions in the Med, and all sides when doing a large invasion can supplement then with DIVs.

I never play without this option.

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Doug Harned
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New Mexico
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Ok, Wendell, you seem to be very active on the boards, and have good experience so I'll ask. You say you always play with the div invasion off of SCSs. What other optional rules do you like to play with? We don't get to play much and would play with divs, and maybe arty. I'd love your opionion on:

Amphs.
Arty (guns).
Vichy rules.
Oil (although I can tell you we tried it once and were not impressed - too much bookkeeping and units sitting around waiting for oil)
No ZOC on surpise.
Russian production multiplier(s).

I know I'm venturing off the original thread, but I'd appreciate any insights you may have.

Thanks.
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Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
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Amphs - I always use the AMPH rules.

Arty (guns) - I like guns in general, and usually vote to include them. My current game has no guns and it's the first time in a long time I haven't had them. As the Soviet, I'm missing those ATGs and late-war artillery!

Vichy rules - Do you mean LOC (Line of Command) Vichy rules? I really like them and use them more often than not.

Oil (although I can tell you we tried it once and were not impressed - too much bookkeeping and units sitting around waiting for oil): I used to be opposed to using an oil rule. But some years ago I was introduced to the "WIFCON Gas" rule which I really like. It was easier than RAW oil, and imposed some costs which I think is important (Axis overproduction is a problem as is - playing zero oil rule really adds to that!) Currently using "Pablo's EZ oil rule" which was in the 2008 Annual, and I believe a variation of it will become the official oil optional rule.

No ZOC on surpise. Never played it. I could be convinced to play it against MINOR countries only, but it's way too powerful to let the Axis have it against the USSR.

Russian production multiplier(s). For years I've used something that Kevin and I came up with (sometimes called Stalin's War): standard PMs, but delete the second city mod, move the first city mod to '43, and give the Soviets +.25 in Jan/Feb '42 or when attacked by Germany or Italy, whichever is SOONER. But in any case, production rules are one of the things that will change when the next version of RAW comes out, this year or next.
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Greg Gray
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I would just add emphasis to the statement "It helps Japan early on"

I do tend to play a more historical Japanese strategy, not go all out for Siberia or commit everything to conquering China, so when the surprise impulse comes I try to seize everything necessary to construct that perimeter of island bastions. You can get some of them without using SCS invasion, but there are so many that I feel Japan can't afford to build all the TRS or AMPH it would require.

Japan can get Guam from Saipan. It can get Hong Kong from Canton, it can get into Malaysia from Siam, but the rest of those islands are spread far and wide. Also, it gives the flexibility to strike further away from your bases. If you have to position an AMPH to move into the Indian Ocean for operations against India or Ceylon, you give indications of your plan, but a Div on a fast cruiser can be further away and still get to a good box for invasion.

Without it Japan is more limited in its expansion. This works equally against them when the US is on the offensive and the Japanese have to anticipate where the next US incursion will strike.
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Simon Nicholls
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We've always played with DIV invasions off SCS. I think it's fairly essential to simulate the rapid Japanese expansion across the Pacific. Also it allows the Italians to actually threaten the CW in the Med.

One thing to remember is that only INF class divisions can invade - so no ARM or CAV invasions.
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Appleton
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It is possible to have a semi-historical Japanese expansion without this option, but it requires Ships in Flames to be used and the Japanese to build out and advance build all their inf class divs and transports. Put two divs on each transport and plan very carefully...not easy, but it can be done. I know, because I have done it. The biggest beneficiary to not ising div invasions is the CW, since those little div invasions in Africa and the Med become very difficult. I have almost always played with this option, but it is an interesting mental exercise to not use it now and then.
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Rober Khan
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I'm a big fan of div's invasions! They make Italy and the Med' a much more touchy and funny place to play. Just imagine all the ungarrisoned ports in Egypt, Greece, Cyprus, French North Africa or Syria that can be threatened by two italian divisions in a surprise impulse. Of course, you cannot attack them all (in fact, no more than two of them, and only if they are in the same sea zone), but it allows Italy to start the war with a great bang, not just with a crappy Graziani rush towards El Alamein or the slow Balbo thing in Greece.
On the other hand, it also allows the British Empire to be marginally threatening (Sardinia!) before Royal PARAs or MARs arrive later in the game.
Moreover, divs can be used this way to support serious invasions or paradrops, taking losses and keeping expensive units alive. Malta gets easier with div's invasions (or so I hope!).
The ultimate trick is to invade the same hex with two divs (one of them MTN, perhaps) and reorganize them as a full Corp at the end of the turn!

So, have fun invading your opponent's safe hinterland!
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