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Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg!» Forums » General

Subject: Question regarding Introductory scenario a.2 barbarossa rss

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Michael Tryfonidis
Greece
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i try to learn that game and want to go through those introductory scenarios
but i want to choose one of the single-map ones
so, barbarossa is the first one to go

at the scenario setup of a.2 barbarossa, paragraph 1.2.1 (pg 5) states "Map used: East Map"

but on the "living rules" link below, that same sentence says "Map used: Both" with red letters, indicating a recent change on this:
http://www.google.com.cy/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=ae%3Atk%20living%2...

so my question is, do i really have to use both maps?
has anybody gone through that scenario and can tell if both of them are necessary?
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Karl Kreder
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The reason you need both maps is because you need the charts and tables on the other map. They do not have to be together if you can't make space that way.

Hope that helps
 
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Harald Torvatn
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You also need it to have enough german cities to set up all your reinforcements.
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Michael Tryfonidis
Greece
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ok, i understand
but i mean there are charts and tables for the other one-map campaigns as a separate sheet available, in order to not to be forced to use both maps i guess
i am talking about the scenarios b.1 and b.2
can i use those sheets for the barbarossa scenario?

regarding the necessity of having germany always on the table in order to bring in reinforcements
this stands for scenario b.1 too, am i right?
how is this solved there?
and if it is solved there, then that's a foul against newbies like me...
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Karl Kreder
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Sorry I did forget (been awhile since I have played the intro scenarios, playing the full campaign right now) you did need the map for German re-enforcements as well as tables.

That is the mistake we made when we first played it and couldn't figure out where the new German units should go modest
 
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Michael Tryfonidis
Greece
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so the western map needs always to be there
you can't have ww2 game without germany on the table,that makes sense
but this is an important piece of information, especially for newbies like me
and the scenario book is not mentioning this, since i relied on the hints like "read this paragraphs first, read this paragraph as you play etc."

and i have to say its kind of dissapointing, since the existence of the 4 one-map scenarios (introductory and campaigns) was one heavy aspect for me getting this game in the first place
and in fact they are only 2, since i guess that the scenario b.1 fire in the east (single map campaign in theory) should move to chapter c as well (...)

disappointing because its the 3rd edition of the game...

anyway, i just hope there are no further such traps to fall into...
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Mike Haggett
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You could use the B.1 western front box rules for A.2 without any issue, I think. I suggested that as a "fix" to A.2, but the A scenarios are supposed to be introductions to the rules system and it was thought it would be less confusing to new players to not add the box rules, but to play with the second map.



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Karl Kreder
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Well if you get the latest rules and scenario books from Decisions website they have errata all this and tell that you need both maps.
modest
 
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Michael Tryfonidis
Greece
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thank you Karl
that was how i came up with the question in the first place, i read the living scenario book

so i need both maps for scenario b.1 as well, is that correct?
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Rupert Griffin
Australia
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This rule is important because of replacements. In the game, a player gets new units/replacements from the force pool. These new units have to be placed in city hexes (the hexes with yellow dots) in one's home country or the capital city hexes. For Germany, these hexes are within the German borders BEFORE 1938. The German city hexes closest to the East (the USSR/Poland) are: Konigsberg; Berlin; Breslau; Munich.

Posen, Warsaw, Krakow, Vienna, Prague, weren't German before 1938, so you can't use them as replacement locations.

In short, then, you do need to use the Western map. Otherwise, you can just enter the reinforcements at the Eastern map edge. But that would be cheating, as the German player does need to move the new units quite a distance into the Soviet Union. Quick entry of new German units would be unfair on the Soviet player.

The only way replacements can get on to the map is by using the cards. If the card allows it, you can move counters from your force pool (which is also your dead pile) onto those city hexes. For instance, the Soviet card 25 ('Relocate War Industries') allows you to move a massive 21 infantry steps (plus one tank step) onto the map.

With this scenario, a German player has to keep two things in mind:

* Keep new German units broken down into one-step counters for as long as possible; that way, they can move at double-speed along Soviet roads;

and

* Put a 'Blitz' marker on the Minsk hex, also, one near Bialystok or Brest Litvosk. That way, Army Group Center can attack the Soviets in Poland in the German player's Blitz combat phase, and then attack Minsk in his regular combat phase. A unit in a 3-hex range of a 'Blitz' marker allows a player to attack twice in the same turn.

The German player will see some spectacular gains in the first few months of the Barbarossa scenario, but after that, it will be downhill from there.

Hope this helps.


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Karl Kreder
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That helps me with my campaign game, I have not invaded the Soviet Union yet

You could technically work out how many moves it takes from German cities and not use the Western map but it would be kinda a pain. Also the delay boxes and turn record track are on the Western map, you could again work around those if you didn't want the Western map (make your own paper copies).

One thing I did was find a picture of the terrain effects chart on the Eastern map, I made an 8" by 11" page copy of it so I could read it easier.

Happy invading
 
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Michael Tryfonidis
Greece
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We used the Western europe box as a reinforcement location for the germans in the barbarossa scenario, which wasn't a difficult rule after all. It worked out quite well.

Me and my opponent, we concluded that first scenario having lots of fun, but we came up with some questions. We actually ended up arguing like lawyers stating law paragraphs etc., which was quite amusing. Imagine the picture: two guys play their first session of a wargame, and then drinking a beer at a bar the night after the game, arguing quite a while "if we followed that rule right, i would have won..." and so on, people asking us what the hell we were talking about...
In fact, we had a different point of view regarding lots of rules, but here are some for which we still did not agree upon:

- taking replacements

Let's say that you have a 2-step infantry unit in the force pool. Can you place it as a reinforcement? And if so, doesn't it count as having taken 2 of the reinforcement steps provided by the card?

The rulebook is a little bit vague in that matter (at least for us non-native english speakers). It says:

"Replacements are taken from a Force Pool as one-step ground units of the nationality, number, and unit type received."

and

"A player cannot place multi-step units as replacements. Replacements are placed on the map per Placing Replacement rules..."

But what happens with those 2-step units that you have in the force pool in the beginning of the game? I guess we are allowed to place them (although they are 2-step units?!) but to they count as 1 or 2 steps taken from your reinforcement steps?

- HQ

rule 4.2.1.2 says

"An HQ unit can provide Ranged Support to any combat that includes a ground unit of the same nationality as the HQ unit."

But does that mean that the HQ unit provide support to more than one attacking stacks, if the hex of the attacking units are within the HQ's support range? Or does it only work for one combat per round?

 
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Mike Haggett
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A 2-step infantry unit can be taken on its 1-step side as a replacement; you would need to combine it with another 1-step unit in the organization step to get to the 2-step side. You cannot spend 2 replacement steps to place it on its 2-step side. So what happens to the 2-step infantry is that they are placed 1 step at a time then organized into their 2-step sides.

For example, you can place the Soviet 112 (backprinted with 332) as a replacement step. To get a 332, you would need to place 1 112 and some other infantry step (112, 012, or the 113 cav). In organization, you would then flip the 112 to its 332 side and place the other infantry step used back in the force pool. Because of this, stacking can affect how you place your units.

An HQ can only be used to attack once; the restriction under 4.2.1, 4th paragraph applies.

Hope that helps!
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Michael Tryfonidis
Greece
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Ok, so i guess it works similar then for the 3-step units, which are 2-step units on their reduced side.
These are units that come to the game only during the organization segment by combining existing units.
 
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Mike Haggett
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Yes, multi-step units (whether 2 or 3-steps) can only be made through organization. The main difference for the 2-steppers is that they can be brought in on their 1-step side as replacements.
 
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Reinhard Mueller
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fishbowl wrote:

Posen, Warsaw, Krakow, Vienna, Prague, weren't German before 1938, so you can't use them as replacement locations.

Where can I find this in the rulebook?
There is no exact definition of home country in the rules, but it says:

"If a Ceded Lands marker says a particular area has been “ceded to” a Country, that area is part of the Country named on that marker."

So if a country or region like Austria, Czechoslovakia or the Polish Corridor is ceded to Germany it becomes part of the home country. Doesn't it?
So I think you can place replacements in Posen, Vienna and Prague.
But not in Warsaw and Krakow as Poland is a conquered Allied Minor country.
Or am I missing something?

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Mike Haggett
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You are correct: Vienna, Prague, Posen and Metz become German cities for replacement after Austria, Czechoslovakia, Polish Corridor, and Alsace-Lorraine have been ceded. Those are part of Germany, not dependents, so you can place German replacement steps there.

You are also correct that you cannot take German replacements in Warsaw and Krakow, being a conquered minor.
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