Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Virgin Queen» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mostly Armada questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Marcus Lindberg
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
Some questions have came up when playing, mostly about the Armada. I hope Ed got some time over to clarify.

In the rules for Spain (page 37) it is stated:

Quote:
Land Units and the Armada: CP from the Spanish Armada home
card (or other cards) can be used to construct Spanish regulars or
mercenaries directly onto the Armada if it is in a Spanish home port
(or Lisbon). When the Armada is in a port space, land units and
army leaders may be freely moved between that space on the Europe
Map and the Armada, as long as the current carrying capacity of
the Armada is not exceeded. Land units in the same space as the
Armada that lost a field battle earlier in the impulse may be placed
onto the Armada and move with it during that same impulse; they
are just restricted from taking a Move action (the same restriction
from 13.1 that applies to any land units that have lost a field battle).
Land units and army leaders already on the Armada may remain
there during the Winter Phase (but units may not move onto the
Armada at this time).


Question 1. Exactly when may the units be freely moved between the space and the Armada at a port? Is it a no CP cost action that only can be done during any Spanish impulse? Can Spain do it after/before playing a card as an event during its impulse. Can Spain do this and not play any cards on his impulse (Passing)? Can it be done before/after/during actions in an enemy/allied impulse (retreats, avoid battle, field battles, assaults, rebellion etc). Can it be done when playing a response card?

Question 2. Is the units/army leaders on the Armada at port ever considered to be in the space? E.g during field battles/assaults/rebellion/events.

Question 3. How many units is the Armada considered to be during step 2 of a protestant rebellion? I guess using the Armada rules for combat hits need to be used but I think it should be stated. There is no support in the rules for the following interpretations but it would be good if it where stated clearly in the rules or a FAQ to avoid arguments at the game table:

Question 4. Is it intended that a sea zone with the Armada should not be available as an option for retreat/avoid combat destination? It takes just 1 CP to sea transport there so some players which is the same as the 1 CP free move when avoiding combat/retreating so some players think it is logical that it should be possible if there is carrying capacity. It might be good if it's clearly stated in the Armada rules or a FAQ to avoid arguments at the game table.

Question 5. Is it intended that patrols/forts have no effect on treasure fleet resolution?

Question 6. Is it intended that the HRE had made no progress in the tournament scenario compared to the campaign scenario?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Beach
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
1. It is a free CP action taken during the Spanish impulse.

2. The units are still considered to be in the port space for all game purposes.

3. If rebellion hits are applied to the Armada, reduce it by one level for each hit, just as in combat.

4. You may NOT retreat or avoid battle out to a sea zone at any time.

5. Yes.

6. Yes. The tournament scenario represents the historical conditions at the start of Turn 3 (1570). The previous decade hadn't been very fruitful for the HRE.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcus Lindberg
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
Thank you very much for the answers. It clarifies a lot. Super support thumbsup

Two follow up questions on this:

Ed Beach wrote:
2. The units are still considered to be in the port space for all game purposes.


1. If a fortified port space have five or more units on the armada in a fortified space would force a field battle as there are more than four units. In a recent game the armada was avoiding battle into a spanish fortified key under siege bringing the total number of spanish units above four units. Would that lead to a field battle?

2. A strength 6 Armada is in a fortified space with 6 units aboard and 4 units not aboard at winter. Are all units able to stay? (6 units from special wintering on the armada and 4 in the fortification) or does 4 have to go to the capitol (6 units from special wintering on the armada but the fortified space has no capacity left as units on the armada are also considered to be in the port space and has used up the normal wintering capacity as well)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Beach
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
1. I'm going to have to disallow the Armada to retreat/avoid battle to a port under siege. Look for that in a FAQ/Errata update.

2. Keeping all these units in this space over winter is fine.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Ferguson
Ireland
Cork
Cork
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I think the intent of the rules is clearly that you can never retreat into (a game state that would necessitate) a battle, whether or not that's ever stated in those many words as such. Or avoid battle into a battle -- clue is in the name there, I feel!

May avoid-battles and retreats for (other) naval units use besieged ports? A strict reading seems to allow this. It seems somewhat odd, though, as AB disallows a friendly (but non-owned) port as the target space, which seems a more promising spot otherwise. (Land ABs are exactly the opposite: non-controlled friendly is OK, but enemy units are not.) Also, allowing either could potentially change the "state" of the siege! (Though it won't actually break it, admittedly.) This (HIS) thread seems to conclude that this is OK (at least in the retreat case).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcus Lindberg
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
Thanks for the enlightening responses. Now I'm into how to interpret things most things.

I came up with one other strange corner case (sorry Ed for giving you so much trouble). If the Armada is in a NON fortified port with some units on the armada and some that are not and an enemy formation enters then the armada must retreat (as per 12.2). Will the Spanish player have the option of unloading the units or are they carried away with the Armada?

Before this thread I treated the Armada boarded units being ignored in spaces. I guess playing Dungeons&Dragons with portable holes gives that kind of thinking :blush:
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Beach
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Those units would move away with the Armada.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Ferguson
Ireland
Cork
Cork
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
mosep wrote:
I came up with one other strange corner case (sorry Ed for giving you so much trouble). If the Armada is in a NON fortified port with some units on the armada and some that are not and an enemy formation enters then the armada must retreat (as per 12.2).

I don't believe 12.2 applies here; this deals with controlling a space, which isn't possible here due to the presence of the Armada's land units -- to say nothing of the additional land units in the space you mention in this case.

Instead what happens here is field battle (with possible retreat, per 14.1). I must admit I'm not 100% clear how that's resolved with the Armada present: do the land units retreat with those others present in the space otherwise (or get eliminated with them), as implied by Ed's original answers 2 and 4? (The alternative would be immediate retreat of the Armada to sea with those units, but I see no rules basis for such a procedure.)

(I thought there'd been a thread on this before, but my google skills aren't up to finding it if there was, I'm afraid.)

Quote:
Will the Spanish player have the option of unloading the units or are they carried away with the Armada?

The implication of Ed's answer to your earlier Q1 was that loading and unloading was only ever possible on your impulse. But they appear to certainly at least fight as in the space, whether 'loaded' or not.

Quote:
Before this thread I treated the Armada boarded units being ignored in spaces. I guess playing Dungeons&Dragons with portable holes gives that kind of thinking blush

Little shame in geekery on the geek, and no shame at all in massive pedantry in VQ circles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Ferguson
Ireland
Cork
Cork
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Ed Beach wrote:
Those units would move away with the Armada.

Oh. My inner Ed isn't firing on any cylinders at all today, it seems.
When exactly does the Armada move away, then? Before the combat? If a retreat is called for?

If it doesn't occur before combat... do the land units and the Armada (and its embarked units) potentially avoid battle separately, one according to the land procedure, and the other according to the naval one?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcus Lindberg
Sweden
flag msg tools
mb
Alex I think you are correct. I must have remembered the rules incorrectly and was a bit hasty putting a reference to 12.2 after searching the rules pdf. Ed probably just responded to what happens in a 12.2 retreat when placing a control marker. Sorry for instigating the confusion just ignore my latest question as there is no retreat of naval units when an enemy enters an unfortified space.

I checked normal Naval movement and as far as I see it is possible to move the Armada with units into a space under your control with enemy units so I guess Ed will add a FAQ entry prohibiting the Armada with units to move/retreat/avoid combat into a space with enemy units.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Ferguson
Ireland
Cork
Cork
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
mosep wrote:
Sorry for instigating the confusion just ignore my latest question as there is no retreat of naval units when an enemy enters an unfortified space.

No worries -- it was (and is) an interesting question, albeit asked (and answered) in a confusing manner.

Quote:
I checked normal Naval movement and as far as I see it is possible to move the Armada with units into a space under your control with enemy units so I guess Ed will add a FAQ entry prohibiting the Armada with units to move [...] into a space with enemy units.

That's yet another case! Oh noes! Working my way through this, the only rationale for doing this is to cause a field (relief, if there's a siege) battle -- you can't be doing it for naval combat, as there can't be an enemy naval units there. The "correct" way to do this is surely intended to be to use (the Armada's version of!) Naval Transport from the adjacent sea zone into said enemy-occupied space, so I strongly suspect that there shouldn't be this different, somewhat more confusing, method of trying to achieve the same ends.

I suppose a second reason would be to prevent an assault, which would make sense if the Armada were free of land units.

Quote:
/retreat/avoid combat into a space with enemy units.

Those cases Ed already stipulated, so I'm going to quit while I imagine I'm ahead!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bastos
France
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
One additional question : is it possible to do a naval move with the armada (in a sea zone) as destination of the move ? Eg Armada in Gulf of Lyon, fleet in Barbary coast, units in Algiers moving to the armada ?


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Kiefte
Canada
Dartmouth
Nova Scotia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bastos wrote:
One additional question : is it possible to do a naval move with the armada (in a sea zone) as destination of the move ? Eg Armada in Gulf of Lyon, fleet in Barbary coast, units in Algiers moving to the armada ?


According to the rules, no. Movement to and from the Armada must involve an adjacent port as per the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.