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1989: Dawn of Freedom» Forums » Rules

Subject: Is the card the democrat hands over for Deutsche Marks discarded? rss

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Chris Ferejohn
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So Deutsche Marks says that the Democrat "gives" the Communist his highest ops card, but unless I'm mistaken what actually happen is the Democrat *discards* his highest value ops card and the soviet player gets the benefit (ops or event if Communist). The event is of course discarded if executed (and asterisked).

"Gives" makes it sound like the card goes into the communist player's hand (and there is some other event where the Democrat must "discard" a random card where the event takes place if it is Communist), so I wasn't sure if there was a reason for the language discrepancy.
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Ted Torgerson
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cferejohn wrote:
So Deutsche Marks says that the Democrat "gives" the Communist his highest ops card, but unless I'm mistaken what actually happen is the Democrat *discards* his highest value ops card and the soviet player gets the benefit (ops or event if Communist). The event is of course discarded if executed (and asterisked).

"Gives" makes it sound like the card goes into the communist player's hand (and there is some other event where the Democrat must "discard" a random card where the event takes place if it is Communist), so I wasn't sure if there was a reason for the language discrepancy.


No the card received from the Democrat's hand is not immediately discarded. Rather, if the card is a Communist event, the event takes place immediately. The Communist cannot choose to forego the event and use the Ops instead. This means the Democrat can sometimes play D Marks for Ops and give the Communist event like Stasi that will be harmless at the end of the Turn. If the event is neutral or Democratic, the Communist gets to use the card for its Ops value, and the event is not triggered. So this can be very powerful. For instance the Communist uses D Marks, and the Democrat's only 4 Ops event is Solidarity Legalized. The Communist takes the card and gets 4 Ops without triggering the Solidarity event. So it is a great card for either player to draw. It usually is not a card that causes hand management angst for the Democrat because he can plan his hand to give the Communist a weak card or harmless event at the end of the Turn. For the Communist using the 4 Ops instead of the event is tempting, just hoping you draw it again when it cycles through the deck.
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Chris Ferejohn
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Sorry, I don't think I did a good job of phrasing my question. So, Democrat hands Communist a card:

1. If it is a Communist event it takes place immediately and then the card is discarded/removed from play or it goes into the Communist players hand?

2. If it is not a Communist event, the Communist immediately gets the ops the spend and then the card is discarded or is it put into the Communist players hand?
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Chris Linneman
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The card is discarded/removed, just as if it had been played. I agree the terminology is not consistent with other card text, but there is really no instance in which a card is played without being discarded/removed, so we can assume that if that were the case here, the card would specify as much.

The sequence is: Democrat gives Communist the card, then Communist immediately plays the card, either as an event, if Communist, or for Ops without triggering the event, if Democrat.
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Chris Ferejohn
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OK thanks. That's what I thought (and it's consistent with how a similar card - 5 Year Plan I think - works in Twilight struggle). I was just hung up on the give/discard terminology discrepancy cuz I'm a writer and I get hung up on stuff like that.

Damn I'm excited to play this. I've got it set up, I've taught my wife the rules (not too hard as she already knows Twilight Struggle) but now she's too tired (I shouldn't complain too much as she is growing a human being inside her).
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Ted Torgerson
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Quote:
1. If it is a Communist event it takes place immediately and then the card is discarded/removed from play or it goes into the Communist players hand?


discard pile/removed from play. Not into the player's hand.

Quote:
2. If it is not a Communist event, the Communist immediately gets the ops the spend and then the card is discarded or is it put into the Communist players hand?


discard pile. Not into the player's hand.
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Ferro Ostil
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This just came up in a game, where the Democrat held Deutsche Marks. Is this sequence right?

1. Dem plays Deutsche Marks, elects to trigger event first.
2. Dem gives Com player his highest-ops non-scoring card.
3. Com implements event of the card he just received (if Com event) or plays the card for ops (if neutral or Dem event). The card is removed (if Com event), discarded (if neutral or Dem event).
4. Dem player than plays Deutsche Marks for its 4 ops. Deutsche Marks is then removed.

TIA.
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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That's correct, Ferro, but for completeness, I'd change the second sentence in 3 to:

The card is removed (if Com starred event), or discarded (if neutral, Dem event, or non-starred Communist event).
 
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Ferro Ostil
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Thanks! And thanks for clarifying.
 
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