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Sentinels of the Multiverse» Forums » Variants

Subject: Thoughts on 6+ players rss

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SnipedintheHead
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So my buddies and I have started our quest to play Sentinels with 6 or 7 people. A number of other members have posted questions if there were any variants to this effect and the answer has always been "Just play 2 games". Except we don't want to play 2 games, we want to play 1! After all, what's more super heroey then getting a bunch of heroes together to face off against villains that have teamed up for plans nefarious?

So we sat down last night and attempted to play a game against 2 villains. And it was too easy. Side note: We played against Plague Rat and Omintron, so it wasn't the toughest of fights regardless. We had put in place a couple of rules that we thought might help balance things out:

1) Every 3rd turn, both villains would activate. The thought was this would put more pressure on the group, as we were still activating 1 card per turn (well, 1 regular villains turn, we had Omnitron in play, so it was 2 cards per turn). This was not nearly enough.

2)Any hero card that stated something like "Any non-hero target takes x damage" had to be targeted at a villain and his/her lackeys and would not hit everybody. The idea was that this would keep some of the hero abilities in check. 2 things about this rule: 1) Those cards still hit environment cards. 2) Cards that specified a number of targets (Eg. Deal 3 damage to 3 targets) could still hit both villains. This rule worked out very well.

With the exception of 1 hero who got hit with a number of "Hero with the lowest HP, every other hero ended the game with full health, or very, very close to it.

So we have been talking about what needs to change to make this work. Even with 6 people, it was clearly too easy of a game. So here are out thoughts on what to test next time we play.

1) Each villain gets a Villain start and end phase each turn. This keeps their cards activating and ticking, but doesn't give them extra cards. The idea being that villains still attack each turn but they aren't actively adding cards every turn. This also makes some cards out to be big threats, which they should be.

2)The villain who's "turn" it is will also draw an extra card halfway through the heroes turn. For many cards this will not activate until the villain's full turn, thus giving the heroes some chances to stop the threat.

3)Every 3rd turn both villains activate. This is exactly like how we had it, but with them each drawing an extra card halfway through, should prove to be quite the threat.

4)Villain and environment cards that target, target 2x the number of players, moving to the next in line. So, any villain card that targets the hero with the lowest HP will also damage the hero with the 2nd lowest HP. Same with highest. Krakens and T-Rexs become quite a bit more dangerous now.

5)Environment cards that have a payment associated with removing them (EG, a hero must skip a turn to remove the card) require double the cost.

6)The targeting rule above would stay. We actually felt like it was a really good change and we really liked it.

7)Use some common sense when fighting villains. If you are fighting Plague Rat you are never going to get all the heroes infected, he just doesn't have that many cards. We put a rule that if 5 heroes (all the cards he had) got infected, then he flipped.

Our hopes for all of this is to keep the challenge going in a game where the heroes have a huge number of answers to the problems that are arising. Here is a rundown of how 3 turns would go:

Turn 1:
Villain A & B Start of Turn Effects
Villain A draws a Card
Villain A & B End of Turn Effects

Hero 1, 2, 3 take turns
Villain A draws a Card
Hero 4, 5, 6 (possibly 7) take turns
Environment Deck

Turn 2:
Villain A & B Start of Turn Effects
Villain B draws a Card
Villain A & B End of Turn Effects

Hero 1, 2, 3, take turns
Villain B draws a card
Hero 4, 5, 6
Environment Deck

Turn 3:
Villain A & B Start of Turn Effects
Villain A & B draw a card
Villain A & B End of Turn Effects

Hero 1, 2, 3 take turns
Villain A & B Draw a card
Hero 4, 5, 6 take turns
Environment Deck

If anyone gets a chance to playtest this, let me know, I'm sure my group would love to hear it. We have a couple of concerns about this model:

1)Is it too much? The heroes do have a lot of solutions to problems that arise, but is this too much?

2)Lowest HP characters - They can get very quickly get decimated. In our game last night, even without these changes the player playing Tachyon got beat down to about 6 hp in 2 or 3 turns. And while we healed him a ton, he never got above 6 hp, because of the various effects that kept targeting him.

And finally, if this doesn't work and the villains are still too easy, we have some more ideas as to what to do. Although we are not implementing these currently, I figured this was a good place to discuss them:

-Minions get extra health. Whether doubled or +2 per hero over 4, we're not sure, but it seems likely that minions could be weak.

-Extra health for the villains. Nothing major something like 20-30, but maybe this is required?

-Random damage? If instead of always targeting the weakest hero, if something targets "the weakest hero" you randomly pick a hero between the bottom 3 and they take the damage. This solves the issue of the weakest hero becoming so weak that they will always be the weakest and always get hit.

-Continually deal damage to the heroes. Something like 1-2 irreducible per turn.

-Extra damage from the villains. Most of the "H" villains wouldn't need this, but mainly for the small damages a lot of villains can deal.

-"H" mechanic. I know they are coming out with updated villains with the "H" mechanic, but we don't have those yet and I couldn't fork out the cash for them, so I won't have them for a while. But the thought is to modify regular villains damages for the number of heros

-2 environment cards? In the game we played we had 3 krakens out at 1 point, so the environment definitely was in play. But the thought is that it might not be enough of an effect in the future. We don't want two environments, because that just doesn't make sense.

-Reduced damage to the lowest hero. If the lowest hero gets hit 2 or more times in a turn, any time after the 1st hit is halved, rounded up.

These are the thoughts we have for this variant and we'd love to here your thoughts.
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Roberta Yang
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We had a very close game with 6 heroes versus 2 villains on 2 environments and no other serious modifications:

Grand Warlord Voss (Advanced)
Hero
Hero
Hero
Wagner Mars Base
Citizen Dawn (Advanced)
Hero
Hero
Hero
Insula Primalis

It was a pretty tight game (we only survived because a volcano kept taking out Voss's minions while Absolute Zero shrugged off its Fire damage), but we were using one of the hardest villain and environment combinations.

I'd expect something like "Give the villain a turn for every three hero turns, and all 'damage hero with highest HP' effects damage the two heroes with the highest and second-highest HP" would probably work well. Or something dividing the heroes into two "teams", and having a hero's buff cards only help other heroes on their team (so you don't accumulate crazy bonuses from everyone having something in play that supports all heroes).

The underlying downside to large games, though, is that the game will drag on a lot longer than it's supposed to.
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SnipedintheHead
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Interesting thoughts. It's nice to see that things worked out well. I did think about trying the advanced modes on a couple of villains, so maybe that's the option to try next.

We don't want two environments though, as we like the idea of fighting in just one area.

And we don't mind about the time, gaming is really just about hanging out and shooting the breeze, so it's no biggie.

Thanks for the input!
 
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Roberta Yang
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Instead of two environments, it would be easy to substitute two environment turns per game round with the same environment deck.

But yeah, if the game proved too easy, then the obvious solution is to not use the non-Advanced versions of two of the easiest villains in the game.
 
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Daniel Koepke
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Has anyone tried just playing the villain similar to a hero, i.e. start with four cards in hand and instead of flipping over the top card, play one from hand and then draw?

I'm considering that as an option if I have six players. Maybe add the advance rules for the villain as well.
 
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Andrew Arenson
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deeksworld wrote:
Has anyone tried just playing the villain similar to a hero, i.e. start with four cards in hand and instead of flipping over the top card, play one from hand and then draw?

I'm considering that as an option if I have six players. Maybe add the advance rules for the villain as well.


I think the heroes are going to lose badly.
 
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Daniel Himes
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The Vengeance Villain team up mode would easily allow for 6 or more heroes if you used Yoshi's villain team conversions to allow for more than five villains.
 
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Jonathan Meltzer
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salty53 wrote:
We had a very close game with 6 heroes versus 2 villains on 2 environments and no other serious modifications:

Grand Warlord Voss (Advanced)
Hero
Hero
Hero
Wagner Mars Base
Citizen Dawn (Advanced)
Hero
Hero
Hero
Insula Primalis

It was a pretty tight game (we only survived because a volcano kept taking out Voss's minions while Absolute Zero shrugged off its Fire damage), but we were using one of the hardest villain and environment combinations.

I'd expect something like "Give the villain a turn for every three hero turns, and all 'damage hero with highest HP' effects damage the two heroes with the highest and second-highest HP" would probably work well. Or something dividing the heroes into two "teams", and having a hero's buff cards only help other heroes on their team (so you don't accumulate crazy bonuses from everyone having something in play that supports all heroes).

The underlying downside to large games, though, is that the game will drag on a lot longer than it's supposed to.


I know this was a long time ago, but our group is looking into doing this. Would H be 5 or 6 when you have 6 heroes?
 
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Bowie Sessions
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We just played the H as it laid when we tried for this before. The "Deal H+2" style effects got real bloody. It was a race to the bottom for sure.
 
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