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Subject: Order of Choosing rss

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Sigurdur Orn Sigurdarson
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Greetings, I just bought Nexus Ops 2nd edition (FF; 2012) and haven't ever play it or the previous edition. I have gone over the rules but I'm still confused about one area concerning: the "Order of Choosing" (the caption on page 8 in the Rules of Play).

Quoting the Order of Choosing:

Quote:
The attacker removes casualties first.

During the battle phase, players are allowed to trigger unit abilities and/or play Energize cards in this order: attacker, defender, then other players in clockwise order from the defender's left.

Each time a player either triggers a unit ability or plays an Energize card, fully resolve the ability. Then all players get an opportunity to trigger a unit ability or play an Energize card, following the same order outlined above. After all players pass, begin rolling attacks in battle order.


Removing unit casualties in battle on a contended tile

Quote:
The attacker removes casualties first.


Does this matter at all; whether the attacker or defender removes casualties first? To me this appears like a redundant rule, similar to the First Player Marker being a redundant tile. For an example if both the attacker and defender hit with their dragons can't they just simultaneously remove a single unit from their side?

Triggering unit-abilities during the Battle phase

Quote:
Each time a player either triggers a unit ability....Then all players get an opportunity to trigger a unit ability....following the same order outlined above.


This again, seems redundant or even just plain confusing. It seems that the units have abilities that don't need to be "triggered". Some units have higher chance to hit on certain tiles (Crystal, Forest or Magma) and they don't have to "trigger" that to be in effect.

Then Clones can roll more dice depending on the total amount of Clones on the contended tile (dices used=Number of Clones on the contended tile added together minus 1) but again you presumably don't need to "trigger" this ability.

The only real exception is the Sporling and Shardian. You could say the Sporling needs to "trigger" his unit ability to move to an adjacent tile but this ability only applies to a defending or attacking/active player (i.e. not applying to: "all players").

The Shardian on the other hand really can "trigger" his ability to self-destruct in order to make a special attack using an additional dice and having more chance of making a hit (the Shardian's other special ability which applies to Crystal tiles doesn't seem to need to be "triggered" but to always apply when he's removed as a casualty). The Shardian's triggered-ability (which seems to be the sole ability that any unit can "trigger" in a battle) again only applies to a defending or attacking player (again here not "all players" as the wording goes in the rule caption on page 8). The possible contention however is concerning the wording of the Shardian's special self-destruct ability; i.e. that it needs to be triggered "Before battle..". Does this mean

A) that a attacking player needs to announce he/she wishes to trigger this special ability before any battle dice rolls start? - And the defending player follows by making such decision at the start of battle if he also has this unit. Or

B) just before he/she rolls using the Shardian unit(s) for which he/she wishes to use this special ability? - And then the defending player decides likewise whether to trigger this ability for his Shardians, since the defending player rolls for his Shardians at the same time the attacking player does - assuming he has such units on the contended battle tile.

(In any case the "order" that's followed doesn't seem to matter since both the attacking and defending players pretty much resolve the dice throws and hits simultaneously for the same types of units.)

Energize cards' usage in a Battle

Quote:
During the battle phase, players are allowed to.... play Energize cards in this order: attacker, defender, then other players in clockwise order from the defender's left.

Each time a player....plays an Energize card, fully resolve the ability. Then all players get an opportunity to.... play an Energize card, following the same order outlined above. After all players pass, begin rolling attacks in battle order.


This part really confuses me. There's not really any rule that prevents the use of multiple Energize cards during a fight and also it seems that any "uninvolved" player, i.e. besides the attacking and defending players, may choose to use an Energize card on any of the attacking or defending units. However this rule caption on page 8 (Order of Choosing) concerning Energize cards leaves me wondering how they are supposed to work in a battle-phase exactly.

1) Are you allowed to use an Energize card at any time during a battle or only before any battle dices are rolled? I.e. only at the start of a battle or at any time between rolls?

2) If neither the attacking or defending players decide to use any Energize cards are then "uninvolved" players allowed to use their Energize cards to influence the battle? I.e. meaning that the attacking and defending players are presumed to have "passed" on using cards, passing the order to use Energize cards to the other players at the table not involved directly with the current battle.


I have one additional question regarding the Outflank battle Energize card:

Outflank

Are you completely free to choose whatever unit you like (different unit types or even on opposing sides in the battle) that hasn't rolled a dice in the battle yet (here I assume that the rule concerning the use of Energize cards in a battle is that you may use them between rolls and not just before any rolls are made)? Such that let's say an "uninvoled" player would play this card and choose (for whatever strange reason) a Rubium Dragon at the Galactic Syndicate's side and a Fungoid at the Black Helix Industries' side. And, theoretically, you could even choose to use this buff on an enemy unit in a battle?
 
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Guido Gloor
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hibernus wrote:
...Order of Choosing...Energize cards' usage in a Battle...

Normally, the order of choosing won't matter. It's just there to settle disputes. Yes, if you read exactly what it says it's perfectly possible to play multiple cards, because every time a card is played, each player (including the one who just played a card) has to pass in order for play to progress.

hibernus wrote:
...Removing unit casualties...

Order can matter greatly. I have quite an advantage sometimes when I know what units you removed by the time I have to remove my units, because I can react to what you did.

hibernus wrote:
...triggering unit abilities...

Call it "saying what abilities my units have" instead. All players get a chance to say what abilities of their units are active, i.e. triggered. Sometimes whether they're triggered or not depends on whether they're attacker or defender, but all players have to say whether and what abilities are active. Thus all players.

hibernus wrote:
...Outflank...

I don't have the new edition of the game. What exactly does the card say?

(Yes, this answer is not comprehensive, your post was too long for that )
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Sigurdur Orn Sigurdarson
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Thank you very much for your reply. You have clarified this for me, especially concerning when unit casualties are removed from the tile.

Admittedly my post was rather long so I will only highlight a short question about what's bothering me right now:



1) Are you allowed to use a battle Energize card at any time (during a battle) or only just before any battle dices are rolled? (I.e. only at the start of a battle or at any time between rolls)?



Can anyone please clarify this?


(again, the rulebook page 8:
Quote:
During the battle phase, players are allowed to.... play Energize cards in this order: attacker, defender, then other players in clockwise order from the defender's left.

Each time a player....plays an Energize card, fully resolve the ability. Then all players get an opportunity to.... play an Energize card, following the same order outlined above. After all players pass, begin rolling attacks in battle order.
)


(perhaps the main reason I'm asking 1) above is due to the last sentence "After all players pass, begin rolling attacks in battle order.". So I'm wondering if you should stop using Energize cards after battle dice rolling commences.)

I'm not at home at the moment, where I keep the board game, but I could post what the Outflank card says exactly later on.
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Sigurdur Orn Sigurdarson
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All right, this is what the Outflank card says exactly:

Quote:
Play this card before rolling dice for the chosen units.

Choose 2 units in the same hex and add "+2" to each chosen unit's die result.



I hope someone can still clarify that one question I posted earlier at 7:40 am.
 
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mar hawkman
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what was the question about it?
 
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Sigurdur Orn Sigurdarson
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marhawkman wrote:
what was the question about it?


The question about Outflank was simply whether you could choose whatever unit you liked that hadn't thrown a dice yet in that battle. For an example using it on two different types of units or even on two units each on opposing sides in a battle (one on defending and one on attacking side).
 
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Eric Walkingshaw
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hibernus wrote:
marhawkman wrote:
what was the question about it?


The question about Outflank was simply whether you could choose whatever unit you liked that hadn't thrown a dice yet in that battle. For an example using it on two different types of units or even on two units each on opposing sides in a battle (one on defending and one on attacking side).

Yes, you can use Outflank on any two units that haven't been rolled for yet. If the card and rules don't forbid it, assume you can do it.
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Sigurdur Orn Sigurdarson
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After reading the rule-book again and having played my first game of Nexus Ops yesterday I'm no longer confused, though that part of the book (Order of Choosing) should've been worded more clearly in my opinion. I'm just posting here in case anyone else ponders over that text since no one else has yet answered all of the points I asked.

About Energize Cards usage in Battle: There are no restrictions of using the battle Energize Cards - simply follow the instruction text in italics on the card which explains when it is allowed to be used in battle. Anyone, (even players not participating - neither defending nor attacking but they must announce what units their card is affecting) can play a battle Energize card at any time in (or just before, depends according to the card used) a battle if his card's text allows it. However when any player has played a battle Energize card, all other players get a chance to play a battle Energize card as well (so if you play such a card, you wait and don't commence die rolls until it's certain no one else wishes to play a battle card at this point), if they have an eligible card in this order (of course any player can play the first battle Energize card even before the attacker at any point if his card allows it but after that you use the following order for any additional played cards): attacker, defender, other players going clockwise from defender's left. There are no restrictions on how many battle Energize cards can be played in a single battle by any player.

About triggering the Shardian's unit ability: I would say, judging by how battle cards are used, that the Shardian's unit ability should be used in accordance with "B)" in the original post - i.e. the attacker first decides (assuming the defender is not the sole player with Shardians in this battle) at the point just before he rolls his Shardian units whether to use the special ability and which Shardian units will use it, then the defender decides (assuming he also has Shardians) likewise and then they both start rolling dices at the same time. I still think that the rule text about "triggering unit abilities" is pretty redundant in any other case of other unit special abilities.

(The questions about Outflank and the Removing Casualties order have already been answered above so I won't repeat them here)





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Ray
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hibernus wrote:
I'm just posting here in case anyone else ponders over that text since no one else has yet answered all of the points I asked.


This thread was helpful, thanks.

BTW, the "Order of Choosing" is not on page 7. The rules say "see page 7", but it should have said "see page 8".
 
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Josh Anonymous
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"...similar to the First Player Marker being a redundant tile."

I think the first player marker is meant for the Vortex variant.
 
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