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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Fire Breath Rule Clarification Needed rss

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Jan Probst
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ScrewTape wrote:
LoneCoder wrote:
Can the OL choose to walk it and turn it any way he wants?

This question was asked during play testing. Yes.
Wat. Boring.
 
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Jason Preder
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Weltenreiter wrote:
ScrewTape wrote:
LoneCoder wrote:
Can the OL choose to walk it and turn it any way he wants?

This question was asked during play testing. Yes.
Wat. Boring.

I agree...very strange. We played a bunch over the weekened, and we house ruled our own LOS and in this instance, how the Dragon Breath worked. Straight Line, and not bending around corners.

If you don't like the official rules, just house rule them. It is a game after all
 
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Stephen Williams
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shnar wrote:
Antistone wrote:

"The target space must contain one enemy figure as the target of the attack." (page 12, Combat - Declare Weapon and Target)
I was wondering about that, answered on my phone so didn't have the rules to double check, and so just assumed they allowed friendly figures to be targeted. Thanks for the clarification, and that kind of sucks, I think I might just have to house-rule that...

Are you suggesting a house rule to allow targeting friendly figures, or to allow targeting empty spaces (as well as those occupied by any figure)?

I'm thinking of adding a house rule for the latter, myself. I never had a problem with attacks targeting empty spaces in 1e and the restriction of only being allowed to target enemy figures seems somewhat artificial.

Of course, the caveat to that house rule will be that any secondary effects that trigger off a "successful attack" must include at least one enemy figure in said attack.
 
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Jason Preder
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Stewi wrote:
shnar wrote:
Antistone wrote:

"The target space must contain one enemy figure as the target of the attack." (page 12, Combat - Declare Weapon and Target)
I was wondering about that, answered on my phone so didn't have the rules to double check, and so just assumed they allowed friendly figures to be targeted. Thanks for the clarification, and that kind of sucks, I think I might just have to house-rule that...

Are you suggesting a house rule to allow targeting friendly figures, or to allow targeting empty spaces (as well as those occupied by any figure)?

I'm thinking of adding a house rule for the latter, myself. I never had a problem with attacks targeting empty spaces in 1e and the restriction of only being allowed to target enemy figures seems somewhat artificial.

Of course, the caveat to that house rule will be that any secondary effects that trigger off a "successful attack" must include at least one enemy figure in said attack.
I was suggesting that you can house rule whatever you want. It is your game, so if it flys with your group, then play it that way.
 
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Jim Berserk
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Hey, let it go in any direction. Fire Breath is the only thing that stood a chance of stopping the heroes in my last few campaigns. Overlord is already way underpowered. When you level up the heroes get 4 xp which could be 4 new abilities plus buying new shop items while the overlord gets...1 card that he MIGHT draw and use at some point during the encounter...maybe...that might do something that tickles the heroes
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Argonar Alfaran
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I know the thread is pretty old, but I actually have another question regarding the fire breath.

Is the initial target space considered one of the 4 spaced of the path? I know that question was already asked in this thread, but imo. it didn't get enough attention.

I always thought that the attack actually affects 5 spaces and here is my reason. Considering that such rules should work with any positive number, what happens if you trace a path of 3,2 or 1?

If just one space is affected, would you consider this a path of 0 or a path of 1? I would argue it's a path of 0. In my opinion the spaces are like cooridnates in a coordinate system and paths are either a vector, or several vectors, if the direction is changed (with the speciality that diagonal vectors still have a length of 1)

So in my opinion the path still starts with the target space, but is this the first or the "zero" space of the path?

The way movement and los(and attack range) works in this game actually makes me believe in this theory even more. Both trace a path, but the starting space is not added to the length of the path.

Of course I could be wrong and that's why it would be great if we could get an official answer for that, I think it might even be a good candidate for the FAQ, because there is already a passage about the firebreath and all that would be needed would be adding either "including the target space" or "additionally to the target space".
 
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Dawid
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Argonar wrote:
Is the initial target space considered one of the 4 spaced of the path? I know that question was already asked in this thread, but imo. it didn't get enough attention.
Argonar wrote:
The way movement and los(and attack range) works in this game actually makes me believe in this theory even more. Both trace a path, but the starting space is not added to the length of the path.
Notice the difference in wording of a Fire Breath description and Checking Range rules written in a rulebook.

Rule Book, page 12 wrote:
3. Check Range...Starting with the space adjacent to the attacker (of his choice), count the number of spaces to the target space.
Fire Breath wrote:
Starting with the target space, trace a path of 4 spaces in any direction.
This topic is also disused in this other thread.
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Mister Easton
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foxreinard wrote:
Monsters
Q: When tracing a path for the Fire Breath ability, does the path have to be a straight line?
A: No, the path can be traced in any direction and can even change direction.

This is pretty clear from the FAQ PDF, fourth page of four, from the very top.

Just to clarify, does this mean that in the diagram below the line can be traced through all four heroes (from low to high number) if hero 1 is attacked with an attack with fire breath (in other words, the path will turn corners and end up going in the oppisite direction than its initial direction when hero 4 is affected)?

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1, 2, 3 and 4 are heroes in this diagram, hero 1 is attacked with fire breath, can the line be traced from hero 1 to hero 2 to hero 3 to hero 4?
 
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Wallack Wallack
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mistereaston wrote:
foxreinard wrote:
Monsters
Q: When tracing a path for the Fire Breath ability, does the path have to be a straight line?
A: No, the path can be traced in any direction and can even change direction.

This is pretty clear from the FAQ PDF, fourth page of four, from the very top.

Just to clarify, does this mean that in the diagram below the line can be traced through all four heroes (from low to high number) if hero 1 is attacked with an attack with fire breath (in other words, the path will turn corners and end up going in the oppisite direction than its initial direction when hero 4 is affected)?

23
14

1, 2, 3 and 4 are heroes in this diagram, hero 1 is attacked with fire breath, can the line be traced from hero 1 to hero 2 to hero 3 to hero 4?

Yes. Don't think of it as a flamethrower, think of it as magic fire.
 
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Mister Easton
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Thank you!
 
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Mr. Doctor
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Wallack wrote:
mistereaston wrote:
foxreinard wrote:
Monsters
Q: When tracing a path for the Fire Breath ability, does the path have to be a straight line?
A: No, the path can be traced in any direction and can even change direction.

This is pretty clear from the FAQ PDF, fourth page of four, from the very top.

Just to clarify, does this mean that in the diagram below the line can be traced through all four heroes (from low to high number) if hero 1 is attacked with an attack with fire breath (in other words, the path will turn corners and end up going in the oppisite direction than its initial direction when hero 4 is affected)?

23
14

1, 2, 3 and 4 are heroes in this diagram, hero 1 is attacked with fire breath, can the line be traced from hero 1 to hero 2 to hero 3 to hero 4?

Yes. Don't think of it as a flamethrower, think of it as magic fire.
Or, if you want a thematic explanation, think of it as the dragon first breathing fire on hero 1, then it raises it's head to breathe on hero 2, then tilts it's head to the right to breathe on hero 3, and finally comes down with it's head to breathe on hero 4. All in one continuous fire breath, no magic required (well, except for it being a frigging dragon).
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Michael S
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Our group has come across another concern about how Flame Breath works with Shadow Dragons.

Our group understands (or so we think) how Blast works, because it's fairly clearly described in the rulebook. But since Flame Breath works a bit differently, and doesn't have the same kind of wording as Blast, it raises a question of surges.

Thus, the group's concern has become how surges are applied during a Flame Breath attack.

1) OL declares an adjacent target, rolls 4 damage and 2 surges.
2) The "target" rolls his defense, and gets 5 shields.
3) OL declares one surge, +2 damage.
4) OL declares second surge, Flame Breath, draws path to three more figures.

Now here's the question. Flame Breath says "all figures on this path are affected by this attack". Does this mean those figures roll defense against the 4 damage? Or does the +2 from one surge apply to everyone? (At which point, +2 is more like +8 in total).
 
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Zachary Mott
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The surge ability modifies the attack. Each hero would suffer 6 damage less their defense roll. E.g. the first hero would suffer 6 - 5 = 1 damage.
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mr mr
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5 years late to the post, but in case somebody happens to be here, then:

The FAQ now answers this:

"...no, the path can be traced in any direction and can even change direction."
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Qwerty Cat
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Thank you.
 
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Robert
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Argh. I'm trying to get clarification on this issue, if it's 4 or 5 total squares affected by fire breath, and I find different threads with different supposed answers from officials at FFG, some saying it's 4, some 5. And it looks like there's nothing on the matter in the official or unofficial FAQ.

My feeling is that it affects 5 total spaces: the target, and then a path of 4 spaces.

Antistone wrote:
It tells you to trace a path of 4 spaces "starting with the target space". That implies that the target space is one of the 4, and therefore explicitly affected.

I disagree that the target space is one of the 4, because if I told you "starting with such-and-such a square, move your hero 4 spaces in any direction", then your hero was in 5 distinct squares: the starting square and the 4 that he moved into. And that's the wording on my card: "Starting with the target space, trace a path of 4 spaces in any direction. All figures on this path are affected by this attack."

So, I put my finger on the target space. Ok, this is me "starting with the target space". Now, I trace a path of 4 spaces. 1, 2, 3, 4. Seems to me that I just touched 5 total spaces.

I just wish there were clarification that that's what they meant since it seems some people interpret it the other way.
 
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Guido Hansen
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Descent 2nd Edition Community Rules Reference Guide
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Fire Breath affects 4 spaces including the target space.

FFG answer:

Quote:
Rule Question:
Does the "Fire breath" ability mean that the attack affects the target space and 3 additional spaces (for a total of 4 spaces,) or the target space and 4 additional spaces, for a total of 5 spaces?
Answer:
Fire breath affects a total of 4 spaces: the targets space and three additional spaces.

Source: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25128226#25128226
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