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Subject: Humans' combat priorities rss

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Andy H.

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Hi all-
New question. My friend and I got MASSACRED in a 2-player game in which we were both humans(!) - I was Baltar, she was Starbuck.

Seriously seemed like everything that could have gone wrong, did. We were about 10 cards into the crisis deck and only got ONE jump icon (which got set back by a failed crsis). 2 or 3 fleet cards in that time. ALL raiders on the board. Shortly after first jump... more fleet.

It's easy to say that someone should have scouted the crisis deck, but we were so busy protecting civvy ships (which got slaughtered anyway) and dealing with raiders (which seemed to activate EVERY turn).

By the time we could jump the first time, we were down to like 4 pop, with 3 damaged areas. All the die rolls (or a disproportionate amount, at least) went to the cylons to take out all our vipers).

Soooooo... need help. Does anyone have ideas as to what could have been done better? What are your priorities when you're in a dire combat scenario? As with my other threads, please feel free to grill me.

Thanks in advance!
 
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David Montgomery
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The first big thing - were you playing Executive Orders on each other?

Also, 2 player games are odd sometimes, so don't read tons into that. It sounds like you had a really bad mix of crisis cards, which is a bad shuffle, and out of your control.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I've only played BG once, and loved it, but that little experience is enough to convince me I'd never play it as a 2-player game. The heart and soul of the game lies in group dynamics.
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jedisurvivor wrote:
Hi all-
New question. My friend and I got MASSACRED in a 2-player game in which we were both humans(!) - I was Baltar, she was Starbuck.

Seriously seemed like everything that could have gone wrong, did. We were about 10 cards into the crisis deck and only got ONE jump icon (which got set back by a failed crsis). 2 or 3 fleet cards in the time. ALL raiders on the board. Shortly after first jump... more fleet.

It's easy to say that someone should have scouted the crisis deck, but we were so busy protecting civvy ships (which got slaughtered anyway) and dealing with raiders (which seemed to activate EVERY turn).

By the time we could jump the first time, we were down to like 4 pop, with 3 damaged areas. All the die rolls (or a disproportionate amount, at least) went to the cylons to take out all our raiders).

Soooooo... need help. Does anyone have ideas as to what could have been done better? What are your priorities when you're in a dire combat scenario? As with my other threads, please feel free to grill me.

Thanks in advance!
I don't have any experience with 2p games, but I will say first and foremost, give it few more go's... this is a game with card draws and die rolls, and these 2 things right here can provide extreme swings. Enough that sometimes you did everything right, but still lost anyways.

Case in point... I had one game where the first jump took 1.5 hours (I timed it). On average, a jump (without expansion shortcuts) takes anywhere from 10 to 25 minutes.

.

As for other tips I can think of for 2p games, definitely use XOs alot. However, they're less effective since you can only cover 2 vital locations at one time.

I will reiterate to use nukes... thei maximum benefit is to use them to take out 1 basestar + 3 raiders, so play SP when you can!

I already put in the legwork towards such a question, I'll direct you to here that said you've already noticed...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/9599843#9599843
... if that general info changes, I'll edit that. For any new 2p speific info I can think of, I'll post here.

.

Sphere wrote:
I've only played BG once, and loved it, but that little experience is enough to convince me I'd never play it as a 2-player game. The heart and soul of the game lies in group dynamics.
I'm a person who also likes the mechanics [shrug].

@OP, it is more ideal to play 3p/6p, or even better, 5p games. However, you'd only you can make that judgement call of whether or not you'd rather not play BSG, or stick with 2p games.

I myself used to be able to get in an average 2 games a week over the course of 6 montths or so. Since then, the regulars who played it haven't shown up. Now, I'm down to 1 game every 2 months, if even that. If I go 6 months to a year without playing BSG, I'll definitely consider playing a 2p or 3p game. Don't get me wrong, if we have more, I'll go for 4p to 7p games, but part of the reason is also I like trying new things.
 
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Robert
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Did Starbuck use the Press Room during her turn (possibly twice) to get CPs? They are very useful when a Pilot is XOed in combat and needs more red cards.
 
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Robert
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Another point is that your combination of characters was not ideal since Starbuck and Baltar draw little green cards and therefore frequently won't have XOs available.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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It sounds to me like this was a case of bad luck with the Crises, rather than poor handling of the fleet. But since you asked, here are some tips for the combat.

Always consider the possible outcome of each Cylon ship activation. It's risky to have to Basestars out, since a Basestar activation could potentially hit Galactica for two damage. However, if there are Raiders on unprotected Civilian ships, they usually take precedence.

Though you should consider what would happen with each Cylon ship activation, you can generally assume that a Raider activation is coming up sooner than later. I believe they're about 50% of the Cylon activations.

Sometimes Communications is better than Command/Piloting. Group your civilian ships in Sector 5 (that's the bottom right sector) if you can. Most Cylon Attack Cards place Cylon ships in front of Galactica or on the starboard side, so they will have awhile to move before they can get to your Civilians, and when they do, you can launch Vipers and immediately start protecting them.

Since you specifically mentioned Starbuck being in play, you should make an effort to keep her in space as much as possible, to maximize her bonus Actions.

Don't be afraid to nuke if there are two Basestars out, and especially if there are Raiders near the Basestars. In many of our games, our nukes go untouched because things never seem quite bad enough to warrant them, but by the end I wish we had used them, instead of just squandering them. Generally, just one Basestar is not worth nuking, unless you're really close to losing via damage.

Some may disagree with this, but in the base game, I personally put Heavy Raiders lowest on the priority list. Even if a Heavy Raider boards, you can deal with the Centurion in the quiet after the FTL jump, but you can't get back lost civilian ships.
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Robert Stewart
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Dexter345 wrote:
Some may disagree with this, but in the base game, I personally put Heavy Raiders lowest on the priority list. Even if a Heavy Raider boards, you can deal with the Centurion in the quiet after the FTL jump, but you can't get back lost civilian ships.


It's a judgement call when to go after heavy raiders - if you're likely to jump before they can board, then ignore them; if they're likely to board before you can jump, and you don't have civilians about to be overrun, then it may be worth focusing on them when you can use Command to take 3-4 shots off an XO rather than 2 shots from the Armory.

If the President has Authorization of Brutal Force in hand, and is human, then you're often better off letting the Centurion board if it can and then finishing it off when space is quieter...


The most common mistakes in space combat are spending turns sending Vipers to meet Raiders that might otherwise never engage, and misplaying Evasive Maneuvers - unless you collectively draw a lot of piloting, Vipers will get shot down. You can either spend Evasive Maneuvers to reroll every hit and run out when you need them most, or you can let Vipers get shot down, only using EMs to reroll destruction, to protect piloted Vipers, and when the unmanned Viper is the only defender in a sector with civilians who will get blown up if the Viper falls. It only takes one repair card to repair two Vipers, while it takes (on average) one EM per Raider to keep unmanned Vipers flying, so it's more card-efficient to repair.

In general, you only need to do enough in space to keep from losing too much before you can jump.
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rmsgrey wrote:


The most common mistakes in space combat are spending turns sending Vipers to meet Raiders that might otherwise never engage, and misplaying Evasive Maneuvers - unless you collectively draw a lot of piloting, Vipers will get shot down. You can either spend Evasive Maneuvers to reroll every hit and run out when you need them most, or you can let Vipers get shot down, only using EMs to reroll destruction, to protect piloted Vipers, and when the unmanned Viper is the only defender in a sector with civilians who will get blown up if the Viper falls. It only takes one repair card to repair two Vipers, while it takes (on average) one EM per Raider to keep unmanned Vipers flying, so it's more card-efficient to repair.

In general, you only need to do enough in space to keep from losing too much before you can jump.
Yes, but one should also consider it costs actions to repair vipers, and then further actions to redeploy them, which can sometimes be more expensive.
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Robert Stewart
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ackmondual wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:


The most common mistakes in space combat are spending turns sending Vipers to meet Raiders that might otherwise never engage, and misplaying Evasive Maneuvers - unless you collectively draw a lot of piloting, Vipers will get shot down. You can either spend Evasive Maneuvers to reroll every hit and run out when you need them most, or you can let Vipers get shot down, only using EMs to reroll destruction, to protect piloted Vipers, and when the unmanned Viper is the only defender in a sector with civilians who will get blown up if the Viper falls. It only takes one repair card to repair two Vipers, while it takes (on average) one EM per Raider to keep unmanned Vipers flying, so it's more card-efficient to repair.

In general, you only need to do enough in space to keep from losing too much before you can jump.
Yes, but one should also consider it costs actions to repair vipers, and then further actions to redeploy them, which can sometimes be more expensive.


Most Cylon attack cards deploy some vipers for free. It's only if you need to relaunch the Vipers to deal with the current situation that the cost of launching is significant.
 
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rmsgrey wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:


The most common mistakes in space combat are spending turns sending Vipers to meet Raiders that might otherwise never engage, and misplaying Evasive Maneuvers - unless you collectively draw a lot of piloting, Vipers will get shot down. You can either spend Evasive Maneuvers to reroll every hit and run out when you need them most, or you can let Vipers get shot down, only using EMs to reroll destruction, to protect piloted Vipers, and when the unmanned Viper is the only defender in a sector with civilians who will get blown up if the Viper falls. It only takes one repair card to repair two Vipers, while it takes (on average) one EM per Raider to keep unmanned Vipers flying, so it's more card-efficient to repair.

In general, you only need to do enough in space to keep from losing too much before you can jump.
Yes, but one should also consider it costs actions to repair vipers, and then further actions to redeploy them, which can sometimes be more expensive.


Most Cylon attack cards deploy some vipers for free. It's only if you need to relaunch the Vipers to deal with the current situation that the cost of launching is significant.
I was aware of that, although to be honest, my thinking did stray to the CFB, and this seems to be a base game only discussion.

Another thing to consider would be if no1 draws blue, then it's an extra action to play CP or use Research Lab.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Still, an Evasive Maneuver is no guarantee that the Viper won't be hit on the re-roll. You're playing an interrupt for a chance at saving a Repair card later. I personally follow Robert's EM script exactly when I am a Human Pilot.
 
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Dexter345 wrote:
Still, an Evasive Maneuver is no guarantee that the Viper won't be hit on the re-roll. You're playing an interrupt for a chance at saving a Repair card later. I personally follow Robert's EM script exactly when I am a Human Pilot.
Don't get me wrong, I follow most of it too... if a raider needs to get through 4 vipers to get to 3 civvies, I'll save the EMs for the 4th viper. But if it's 10 raiders vs. 3 vipers to get to 3 civvies, I'd be tempted to use them all up. In that case, EMs have no other better function.
 
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Robert Stewart
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ackmondual wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
Still, an Evasive Maneuver is no guarantee that the Viper won't be hit on the re-roll. You're playing an interrupt for a chance at saving a Repair card later. I personally follow Robert's EM script exactly when I am a Human Pilot.
Don't get me wrong, I follow most of it too... if a raider needs to get through 4 vipers to get to 3 civvies, I'll save the EMs for the 4th viper. But if it's 10 raiders vs. 3 vipers to get to 3 civvies, I'd be tempted to use them all up. In that case, EMs have no other better function.


Even there, there's no benefit to blowing all your EMs on the first Viper and giving the remaining Raiders three shots at destroying rather than damaging a Viper when you can let the first two get shot down (rerolling any 8s) and only have one viper at risk of destruction. If you can keep the third Viper flying, then you can still do anything in that sector that you could have with three.

10 raiders v 3 Vipers guarding 3 civvies, you need, on average, 2 EMs to save any civilians, 4 to save them all (for that turn), and 5 to save a viper (on average, half of all raider shots are hits, and each EM means one more hit needs to be rolled, so two more attacks, but also gives a free attack, so the net effect is to require, on average, one more raider in order to get through)
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rmsgrey wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
Still, an Evasive Maneuver is no guarantee that the Viper won't be hit on the re-roll. You're playing an interrupt for a chance at saving a Repair card later. I personally follow Robert's EM script exactly when I am a Human Pilot.
Don't get me wrong, I follow most of it too... if a raider needs to get through 4 vipers to get to 3 civvies, I'll save the EMs for the 4th viper. But if it's 10 raiders vs. 3 vipers to get to 3 civvies, I'd be tempted to use them all up. In that case, EMs have no other better function.


Even there, there's no benefit to blowing all your EMs on the first Viper and giving the remaining Raiders three shots at destroying rather than damaging a Viper when you can let the first two get shot down (rerolling any 8s) and only have one viper at risk of destruction. If you can keep the third Viper flying, then you can still do anything in that sector that you could have with three.
?? I didn't say I was gonna use them all up on the first viper. I must've misunderstood you, as I thought you mentioned that you would hold on to EMs in that case... even if it meant rerolling for the last viper left.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
?? I didn't say I was gonna use them all up on the first viper. I must've misunderstood you, as I thought you mentioned that you would hold on to EMs in that case... even if it meant rerolling for the last viper left.


Ah.

For clarity, under usual circumstances, there are three times I'd play an EM:

1) to reroll viper destruction
2) to keep a pilot out of sickbay
3) to keep the last viper protecting civilians in the air (possibly not when it's also the last raider to fire in that sector, depending on the plan for next turn)

If it looks like being a choice between those three (for example, if there are two sectors with raider swarms, and a couple of vipers and some civilians in each and not enough EMs to go round) then their relative priority varies depending on the game state...
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rmsgrey wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
?? I didn't say I was gonna use them all up on the first viper. I must've misunderstood you, as I thought you mentioned that you would hold on to EMs in that case... even if it meant rerolling for the last viper left.


Ah.

For clarity, under usual circumstances, there are three times I'd play an EM:

1) to reroll viper destruction
2) to keep a pilot out of sickbay
3) to keep the last viper protecting civilians in the air (possibly not when it's also the last raider to fire in that sector, depending on the plan for next turn)

If it looks like being a choice between those three (for example, if there are two sectors with raider swarms, and a couple of vipers and some civilians in each and not enough EMs to go round) then their relative priority varies depending on the game state...
I see... concerning #1, if it's late enough in the game and/or few repair cards going around, I'd just let a viper get destroyed.

When adding CFB from Exodus, some are more inclined to keep Mark VIIs from being damaged/destroyed.
 
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Robert
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Dexter345 wrote:
Though you should consider what would happen with each Cylon ship activation, you can generally assume that a Raider activation is coming up sooner than later. I believe they're about 50% of the Cylon activations.


The percentages for Cylon Ship activations are: Raiders 50%, Heavy Raiders 20%, Basestars fire 20%, Basestars launch 10%.
 
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