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Subject: Question re: Plot Quests rss

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Scotty Dickey
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I bought this game as a birthday gift for a friend in Massachusetts. During his first play of the game, he called to ask a question that I initially thought was ridiculous. But the truth is that I haven't found anything in the rules that explicitly refutes his interpretation.

Bribe the Shipwrights states, "Whenever you take an action that provides any gold, also take 1 Rogue from the supply and place it in your Tavern. He was asking about the, "provides any gold", part. He asked if this could include actions that provide gold for other players (e.g. Playing an agent on another player's building, where the bonus effect of the building is to provide gold for the building's owner).

It seems to me that while it isn't explicitly stated, the spirit of the rule is that the bonus Rogue is only taken following actions that provide gold for the active player, not for other players. But I haven't found anything to back up that opinion.

Can I get a witness?
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brian
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otscotty wrote:
I bought this game as a birthday gift for a friend in Massachusetts. During his first play of the game, he called to ask a question that I initially thought was ridiculous. But the truth is that I haven't found anything in the rules that explicitly refutes his interpretation.

Bribe the Shipwrights states, "Whenever you take an action that provides any gold, also take 1 Rogue from the supply and place it in your Tavern. He was asking about the, "provides any gold", part. He asked if this could include actions that provide gold for other players (e.g. Playing an agent on another player's building, where the bonus effect of the building is to provide gold for the building's owner).

It seems to me that while it isn't explicitly stated, the spirit of the rule is that the bonus Rogue is only taken following actions that provide gold for the active player, not for other players. But I haven't found anything to back up that opinion.

Can I get a witness?

It is for actions that you take that generate gold. In your example of taking an action in a building that generates gold for the owner, if you aren't the one getting gold, you ain't getting a rogue.
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Michael J
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I think it should say "provides you any gold". That's how I've interpreted it, and that's how my game partners have interpreted it. It is sloppy wording, that's all.
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Mark Raciborski
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otscotty wrote:
I bought this game as a birthday gift for a friend in Massachusetts. During his first play of the game, he called to ask a question that I initially thought was ridiculous. But the truth is that I haven't found anything in the rules that explicitly refutes his interpretation.

Bribe the Shipwrights states, "Whenever you take an action that provides any gold, also take 1 Rogue from the supply and place it in your Tavern. He was asking about the, "provides any gold", part. He asked if this could include actions that provide gold for other players (e.g. Playing an agent on another player's building, where the bonus effect of the building is to provide gold for the building's owner).

It seems to me that while it isn't explicitly stated, the spirit of the rule is that the bonus Rogue is only taken following actions that provide gold for the active player, not for other players. But I haven't found anything to back up that opinion.

Can I get a witness?


My reply from WotC,

"Thank you for writing in. The wording for "Bribe the Shipwrights" specifies "Whenever you take an action that provides any gold."

If it's not on your action that provides the gold then you aren't actually taking an action, so you wouldn't get the Rogue for the "Bribe the Shipwrights" plot. Another player placing their agent in your building which gives you gold would be the other player's action.

The plot for "Bribe the Shipwrights" would only apply when you take an action (when you place an agent or play in intrigue card, etc.) that provides gold. However, since it doesn't specify who gets the gold if a card or other effect that you play provides gold to another player then the plot for "Bribe the Shipwrights" would apply (because it's your action that resulted in gold being provided).

Also, remember that you would only gain the benefit from the plot quest after you've completed the quest.

Please let me know if you need any more"

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Scotty Dickey
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Wow! So my friend was right. The rest of us were wrong. I'm really surprised by that. But I guess that's the final word. Thanks so much for pursuing an official response for me.
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Mark Raciborski
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otscotty wrote:
Wow! So my friend was right. The rest of us were wrong. I'm really surprised by that. But I guess that's the final word. Thanks so much for pursuing an official response for me.

Nah, thank WotC, they have always replied back to me in a timely fashion.
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aaron schuppan
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danamark wrote:

However, since it doesn't specify who gets the gold if a card or other effect that you play provides gold to another player then the plot for "Bribe the Shipwrights" would apply (because it's your action that resulted in gold being provided).



Wait, What!? Seriously?

Surely this makes these plot quests ridiculously powerful? We already think they are too powerful the way we are playing them (ie: the wrong way).
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Lee Fisher
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revolushn wrote:
danamark wrote:

However, since it doesn't specify who gets the gold if a card or other effect that you play provides gold to another player then the plot for "Bribe the Shipwrights" would apply (because it's your action that resulted in gold being provided).



Wait, What!? Seriously?

Surely this makes these plot quests ridiculously powerful? We already think they are too powerful the way we are playing them (ie: the wrong way).


"These" plot quests? I think it is only the one plot quest in question. It doesn't seem to make it much more powerful.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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lfisher wrote:
revolushn wrote:
danamark wrote:

However, since it doesn't specify who gets the gold if a card or other effect that you play provides gold to another player then the plot for "Bribe the Shipwrights" would apply (because it's your action that resulted in gold being provided).



Wait, What!? Seriously?

Surely this makes these plot quests ridiculously powerful? We already think they are too powerful the way we are playing them (ie: the wrong way).


"These" plot quests? I think it is only the one plot quest in question. It doesn't seem to make it much more powerful.


Nope, I just looked at them, they are all phrased the same...

If you take an action that provides a...
gold, get a rogue.
rogue, get 2 gold.
fighter, get a fighter.
priest, you may convert something else to a priest.
mage, take an intrigue card.
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Lee Fisher
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dlhammond wrote:
lfisher wrote:
revolushn wrote:
danamark wrote:

However, since it doesn't specify who gets the gold if a card or other effect that you play provides gold to another player then the plot for "Bribe the Shipwrights" would apply (because it's your action that resulted in gold being provided).



Wait, What!? Seriously?

Surely this makes these plot quests ridiculously powerful? We already think they are too powerful the way we are playing them (ie: the wrong way).


"These" plot quests? I think it is only the one plot quest in question. It doesn't seem to make it much more powerful.


Nope, I just looked at them, they are all phrased the same...

If you take an action that provides a...
gold, get a rogue.
rogue, get 2 gold.
fighter, get a fighter.
priest, you may convert something else to a priest.
mage, take an intrigue card.


Ah thanks! On the other hand, are there really that many actions where you are providing adventurers to opponents (and not to yourself)?
 
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Daniel Hammond
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When you use someone else's building. For example, take any 2 adventurers gives any 1 adventurer (I think) so if what you take doesn't trigger it, what they take might.
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Chris Berger
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danamark wrote:
otscotty wrote:
Wow! So my friend was right. The rest of us were wrong. I'm really surprised by that. But I guess that's the final word. Thanks so much for pursuing an official response for me.

Nah, thank WotC, they have always replied back to me in a timely fashion.


The other thing that WotC is pretty famous for is giving opposite answers to the same question if asked more than once... I feel like this answer is wrong, but it's the official rule unless they correct it in the future...

I guess it's not a huge deal - most of the buildings that give your opponent something also give you the same thing. The noticeable difference is gold - several buildings give the owner gold without giving the building user gold, so that powers up Bribe the Shipwrights. Also, the two(?) buildings that give their owner a wild cube... with those, the choice of cube might be influenced by what plot quest the building user has, assuming he doesn't go ahead and ensure it activates by taking the proper cube himself.
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brian
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arkayn wrote:
The other thing that WotC is pretty famous for is giving opposite answers to the same question if asked more than once... I feel like this answer is wrong, but it's the official rule unless they correct it in the future...

QFT
 
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aaron schuppan
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lfisher wrote:
dlhammond wrote:
lfisher wrote:
revolushn wrote:
danamark wrote:

However, since it doesn't specify who gets the gold if a card or other effect that you play provides gold to another player then the plot for "Bribe the Shipwrights" would apply (because it's your action that resulted in gold being provided).



Wait, What!? Seriously?

Surely this makes these plot quests ridiculously powerful? We already think they are too powerful the way we are playing them (ie: the wrong way).


"These" plot quests? I think it is only the one plot quest in question. It doesn't seem to make it much more powerful.


Nope, I just looked at them, they are all phrased the same...

If you take an action that provides a...
gold, get a rogue.
rogue, get 2 gold.
fighter, get a fighter.
priest, you may convert something else to a priest.
mage, take an intrigue card.


Ah thanks! On the other hand, are there really that many actions where you are providing adventurers to opponents (and not to yourself)?


Only about half the intrigue cards (exaggerating I know).
Edit: ok so I re-read and saw the emphasized (and not yourself). So not so many. But I don't see that as being the point really. Especially in a three player game this is almost as bad as a mandatory quest for the third player who isn't getting any bonus.

I just feel this ruling is going to give so many more resources out and overpower these plot quests. But hey, I don't like a rule, i'll live with it
 
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Marty Kane
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dlhammond wrote:
When you use someone else's building. For example, take any 2 adventurers gives any 1 adventurer (I think) so if what you take doesn't trigger it, what they take might.


I don't think owner benefits count as the result of an action for the purposes of the plot quests in discussion. They are more of a side-effect, like getting some adventurers as part of a quest reward (which definitely don't count).
 
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Chris Berger
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revolushn wrote:
Edit: ok so I re-read and saw the emphasized (and not yourself). So not so many. But I don't see that as being the point really.


It's an essential part of the point. If you have a plot quest that gives you an extra fighter when you take an action that gives you a fighter, then it is only powered up in those cases where you wouldn't have already gotten an extra fighter. I.e. those actions that you take that provide an opponent with a fighter and don't provide one to yourself. Off the top of my head, the only ones that could potentially do so are Call for Adventurers, The Yawning Portal, and The Three Pearls. In all three cases, you could assure yourself of that fighter if you take one yourself. Or an opponent could deny you your fighter if you don't take one and they also don't take one.

So that really doesn't power up most plot quests very much at all - it's mostly edge-cases. I believe that the only outlier is Bribe the Shipwright, because of the much larger number of actions that can provide an opponent with gold that don't also provide you with gold.

That said, I still maintain that the ruling doesn't make much sense (though based on a strict reading of the cards, it seems counter to the intent). I just don't think it matters overly much.
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brian
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mekane wrote:
dlhammond wrote:
When you use someone else's building. For example, take any 2 adventurers gives any 1 adventurer (I think) so if what you take doesn't trigger it, what they take might.


I don't think owner benefits count as the result of an action for the purposes of the plot quests in discussion. They are more of a side-effect, like getting some adventurers as part of a quest reward (which definitely don't count).

A quest resolution is not an "action" but using a building is an action and so qualifies. This answer has been in the FAQ for quite some time.
 
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Marty Kane
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
A quest resolution is not an "action" but using a building is an action and so qualifies. This answer has been in the FAQ for quite some time.


I understand that using a building counts as an action. Please quote where in the FAQ it says that getting an owner reward counts as part of that action.

To me, it makes more sense that owner benefits and quest rewards would work the same way.
 
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Chris Berger
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mekane wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
A quest resolution is not an "action" but using a building is an action and so qualifies. This answer has been in the FAQ for quite some time.


I understand that using a building counts as an action. Please quote where in the FAQ it says that getting an owner reward counts as part of that action.

To me, it makes more sense that owner benefits and quest rewards would work the same way.


See earlier in this thread where WotC answered the question.
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mekane wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
A quest resolution is not an "action" but using a building is an action and so qualifies. This answer has been in the FAQ for quite some time.


I understand that using a building counts as an action. Please quote where in the FAQ it says that getting an owner reward counts as part of that action.

To me, it makes more sense that owner benefits and quest rewards would work the same way.

I agree with you but they have ruled above. the question I was referencing was specific to quests. Quests are not actions. Therefore, quests don't trigger these cards that hand out extra. With the exception of that one building that would allow you to complete a Quest right now as part o your action.
 
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Mike Stevens
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We played a game earlier tonight where one of the players had 6 Plot Quests completed and so there were several times where he got Gold because he had gained a Black cube. He also had a Plot Quest that gave him a Black cube anytime he gained Gold.

He would go to a building that gave him a Black Cube and then take 2 Gold because of the one Plot Quest, he would then take ANOTHER Black Cube because because of another Plot Quest he had that said, "anytime you gain Gold, take a Black Cube". Do both of those Plot Quests "stack" and play off of each other each time? We let him do it, because we couldnt find anything that said he couldnt and he actually met the requirement of each Plot Quest.

What are your thoughts?
 
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Robin Goodall
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Omahavice wrote:
We played a game earlier tonight where one of the players had 6 Plot Quests completed and so there were several times where he got Gold because he had gained a Black cube. He also had a Plot Quest that gave him a Black cube anytime he gained Gold.

He would go to a building that gave him a Black Cube and then take 2 Gold because of the one Plot Quest, he would then take ANOTHER Black Cube because because of another Plot Quest he had that said, "anytime you gain Gold, take a Black Cube".


Nope, covered in the FAQ:
Quote:
If a Plot Quest gives me resources for having taken an action, did I gain those resources as a part of taking the action?
No. You gained the extra resources from the effect of the Plot Quest, not from the action itself. The benefits of Plot Quests, and the rewards for completing a Quest, never count as being a part of an action.
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