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Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Science victory? rss

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Mikael Halonen
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When going for space flight you will need to tech 14 times during the game. Given that the average game seems to take 9-10 turns you will need to get 4-5 bonus techs to compete with the other wincons. How do one manage to do this? The culture deck are independeble(but clearly an option with mysticism) and the tech investmest can only give you 3 techs and probaly not in time. Should you go for a military campain and sack some lesser cities?
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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Mikael Halonen wrote:
When going for space flight you will need to tech 14 times during the game. Given that the average game seems to take 9-10 turns you will need to get 4-5 bonus techs to compete with the other wincons. How do one manage to do this? The culture deck are independeble(but clearly an option with mysticism) and the tech investmest can only give you 3 techs and probaly not in time. Should you go for a military campain and sack some lesser cities?


I think, that the general thinking in here is, that the tech victory is kind of a cap on the game time. Only if every other victory path takes a long time for all players, tech victory comes into play. So not really something that usually happens (or players are really supposed to go after) in most games. Unless they drag out.

Though of course much easier within the 9-10 turns with Russia. They are kind of designed for it when combined with the +1 stacking limit.
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Andreas Hohmann
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The science victory in my opinion is just a timer and no viable strategy. Of course you might have a little chance in very rae circumstances like investing 6 times in PE and get some knowledge shared cards, but these situations will most likely not happen in a game where at least one experienced player takes part.
Only the Russian have a solid chance to score a science victory and maybe my custom Babylonian. They have a chance to win with science in turn 9-10.
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El-ad David Amir
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I will reinforce the opinion of those who answered before me. Technological victory is a timer and achieving it is extremely difficult. The exceptions are few and far between. Russia, of course, is geared towards a faster tech victory. Greece with Mysticism might have a chance (starting with an easy Investment outlet, Trade is not a problem and you can sift through the deck for Exchange cards). A quick Statue of Liberty might do it (if you're playing in a game with two Civilizations who are going for wonders, America and Egypt for example). And, of course, luck (Teacher + Atlantis + a couple of tech exchange cards).
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Todd Sweet
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Our group must be doing something wrong since our games always seem to end in tech victories. How do you get a big enough army to take out a capital by turn 10? I can't see culture that quick or economic, but obviously we must be playing too well-balance and not going all out in one victory path.
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James W
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TMJJS wrote:
Our group must be doing something wrong since our games always seem to end in tech victories. How do you get a big enough army to take out a capital by turn 10? I can't see culture that quick or economic, but obviously we must be playing too well-balance and not going all out in one victory path.


It really depends on the group. Yours may be locked in group think. If everyone plays passively and extremely tech-greedy then there's probably a quicker way to win.

How often do battles break out during your games?

Does anyone ramp up their military capabilities over the course of the game?

Do you ever feel the pressure to invest in your own army?

Do your scouts roam the board far away from the safety of your army?

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Ricardo Donoso
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TMJJS wrote:
Our group must be doing something wrong since our games always seem to end in tech victories. How do you get a big enough army to take out a capital by turn 10? I can't see culture that quick or economic, but obviously we must be playing too well-balance and not going all out in one victory path.

take a look at the pbf's, we got military victories as soon as turn FIVE!!!!

Youdon't always need to overcome a tough capital fight, usually you destroy the enemies hand by attacking lone flags and cities, the capital is just a walk on over a no unit enemy.
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Notsteve Notlawton
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These opinions seem the general concensus. So then MY wuestion would be: since tech is a non viable strategy, should the next expansion have a tech focus (rather than FaF with a culture focus.)
 
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Mikael Halonen
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So a science strategy is, at best, a secondary wincon for long drawn out games. That is good to keep in mind but I think a science strategy can be more viable in a 2-player game where you can lay more focus on hinder your opponent win.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Deredbaron wrote:
These opinions seem the general concensus. So then MY wuestion would be: since tech is a non viable strategy, should the next expansion have a tech focus (rather than FaF with a culture focus.)

Personally, I did not like FaF's heavy Culture focus. Rather than have an expansion dedicated to a victory condition, I would prefer to see another one or two tech directed civilizations (such as the custom made Babylon).
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El-ad David Amir
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Mikael Halonen wrote:
So a science strategy is, at best, a secondary wincon for long drawn out games. That is good to keep in mind but I think a science strategy can be more viable in a 2-player game where you can lay more focus on hinder your opponent win.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Versus a skilled opponent who goes for Culture or Economic victory, you will not be able to delay him for the 13-14 turns needed for technological victory, no matter how capable you are in blocking him. You have to go on your own race while pushing back his.
 
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Notsteve Notlawton
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[/q]
Personally, I did not like FaF's heavy Culture focus. Rather than have an expansion dedicated to a victory condition, I would prefer to see another one or two tech directed civilizations (such as the custom made Babylon).[/q]
But I personally wouldn't like just saying "hey, You can go for economic, culture, or military... No no no, you can't go for tech, you have to be Russia, Babylon, or japan to do that!" With any of the other vc's no side is required (though rome may have an easier time with it than Germany) to complete them, so why only russia (or luck) with tech?
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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How can Japan go for tech?
 
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Notsteve Notlawton
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I wasn't talking about the japan here, I was mearly making a theoretical statement of new scientific sides rather than boosts to science. The fact that I said babylon and his babylon can go for tech was mearly coincidence.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Quote:
But I personally wouldn't like just saying "hey, You can go for economic, culture, or military... No no no, you can't go for tech, you have to be Russia, Babylon, or japan to do that!" With any of the other vc's no side is required (though rome may have an easier time with it than Germany) to complete them, so why only russia (or luck) with tech?

This is not radically different than the way the game works right now. China is aimed at Culture, Germany is Economic or Military, Spain is mostly Military, etc. Of course you can win a Military victory with India, but Culture would be easier.
 
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Notsteve Notlawton
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Indubitably. Every civ has It's aim, otherwise Civ would be a rather odd game. however all the other victory conditions are still achievable by all sides, as they are all relatively easier to achieve and have more ways of acquiring their victory points. I'm simply saying I think tech needs a boost and not just some new, better sides... Maybe just reduce the cost of PE to 2 investments... Seems like that would be nearly enough allready.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Deredbaron wrote:
Indubitably. Every civ has It's aim, otherwise Civ would be a rather odd game. however all the other victory conditions are still achievable by all sides, as they are all relatively easier to achieve and have more ways of acquiring their victory points. I'm simply saying I think tech needs a boost and not just some new, better sides... Maybe just reduce the cost of PE to 2 investments... Seems like that would be nearly enough allready.

Everyone can achieve tech victory as well. Get a resource on turn 1, research pottery, start investing on turn 3 in PE. With some luck turn 10 should be achievable. It's possible, just not optimal for most civs.
 
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Gareth Barham
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I played this for the first time yesterday and 2 of us drew with tech victories... It did take 5 hours though and none of use really tried for cultural victories and we were too evenly matched for military. Maybe we need more practise!
 
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Robert Stewart
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madsocktm wrote:
I played this for the first time yesterday and 2 of us drew with tech victories... It did take 5 hours though and none of use really tried for cultural victories and we were too evenly matched for military. Maybe we need more practise!


It didn't help that I wasn't allowed to take advantage of the official rulings etc that I'd taken the trouble to read up on!

By the way, according to the official FAQ, I think you probably technically won - I think it would have been your turn when we both got the final research (player earliest in the turn order gets their research first, and wins before anyone else can). On the other hand, if we'd been playing by the official rulings, Martin would have lost more units in combat with me, and I would have been able to continue pressing you both back rather than having to back off to recover...
 
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Matthias Andersen
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I was actually thinking that a fun variant of this game could be to only allow the players to win with a technological victory.
 
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Sean D.
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FrozenSquirrel wrote:
I was actually thinking that a fun variant of this game could be to only allow the players to win with a technological victory.


How would that be more fun than crushing your enemies and hearing the lamentations of their women? devil
 
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Robert Stewart
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Hector131 wrote:
FrozenSquirrel wrote:
I was actually thinking that a fun variant of this game could be to only allow the players to win with a technological victory.


How would that be more fun than crushing your enemies and hearing the lamentations of their women? devil


For one thing, it lets you finish the job - not only conquer their capital, but also destroy their other cities and hunt down every last scout, then wipe out their remaining flags (if any), build up your cities to the ultimate, research all other technologies, and then (and only then) tackle the final frontier...
 
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Sean D.
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rmsgrey wrote:
Hector131 wrote:
FrozenSquirrel wrote:
I was actually thinking that a fun variant of this game could be to only allow the players to win with a technological victory.


How would that be more fun than crushing your enemies and hearing the lamentations of their women? devil


For one thing, it lets you finish the job - not only conquer their capital, but also destroy their other cities and hunt down every last scout, then wipe out their remaining flags (if any), build up your cities to the ultimate, research all other technologies, and then (and only then) tackle the final frontier...


Oh I see, kill them all then build your level 5 tech. I suppose it would get rid of the cheap wins by military fought by the 3rd strongest player capturing the Capital of the 4th strongest player..
 
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Matthias Andersen
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Of course it would require some ruling with it.

And please stop wasting a column on being ironic. That is a total waste of our time.
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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Flame war in 3, 2, 1...
 
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