Jayson Myers
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Conclusion: If you like a good, quick skirmish game that is easy to play, then this might be your game. The good and the bad. The good is this game is really cheap and easy to find. The bad is is the "game system" is dead and nothing new will be coming. That could actually work to your advantage as there is a finite known amount of "things" to collect and then you have a full working system. With that said, it is not likely to grow in the future.

I'm not a big skirmish fan and to be honest I'll probably play Doom or Gears of War instead of this, but to those that like an open map and just kill each other, you could do worse (and more expensive).

The minis are great (in my humble opinion), although I'm not a fan of paper maps (so sue me). The components overall are very good (excluding the map) and the rule book is very clear and concise. I was able to learn how to play in one solo game (playing both sides).

Fun overall; a good game, just not my cup of tea.



Components: The components are very, very good. It has a paper map, which I was not happy with. The minis are very good quality and painted. There is/was some concern over the size of the minis (a tad bigger than normal). This isn't a concern of mine as I don't play a lot of games like this so I don't mix and match. The cards are a tad on the cheap side, but they have a nice gloss and look great. Overall, (excluding the map) everything is of very good quality (about what I expect from FFG).



Rules: The rules come in a nice book with great pictures. I don't normally play games like this and I was able to digest the rules very easily. Overall, the game is rather simple and the book is illustrated and written very nicely to explain the game. Nothing in the game is overly complicated and the rule book does a great job of explaining the rules.



Flow of the Game: The basic flow of the game is you get to place an order token on one player then take actions. Then, repeat for second person on your team. Then, the second person takes his turn doing the same thing.

You might have gold order tokens (3 actions), silver (2 actions, or bronze (1 action). The actions you can take is move, attack, guard, or special ability. You cannot take the same action twice. Overall, this is a very easy to digest and use system with nothing out of the ordinary or overly complicated.

Each person and move 4 (unless a card states otherwise), attack within range, or guard (shoot if someone messes with you). There are a handful of other games that use this same system. Nothing really stands out as unique.



Should I buy it?: Yes and no. The game is very cheap and at a great price. At this price, it is almost a sure thing. What you get in the box is of great value (the minis alone are worth more than the price). I didn't like the paper map, but it can be over looked. The other minis you can buy (expansions) look to add a lot of variety to the game. The system is solid (but not unique). Overall, you could have a lot of fun with this game and at this price it might be hard to pass up. Too bad the figures won't work with out minis (due to the size).

Purge for me (maybe not for you).
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This Guy
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But how do you feel about the paper map?
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Jayson Myers
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Aetheros wrote:
But how do you feel about the paper map?


I only brought it up so much because otherwise this is a great looking game. I'm not a war gamer and I don't keep plexiglass laying around. Also, a paper map can tear or wear easy (in my opinion). It is a huge stumbling block for me with a game and to me it is a huge negative. I will honestly think twice about a game if it has a paper map.
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Mike MacMartin
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I'm planning on making a set of maps based on the PDFs they released at one point. Print 'em on label paper, mount to illustration board, make fold, coat with laminate, done! (or for the tile versions, make tiles )
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IIRC, the base set has the stats for all the mini's, so you can easily proxy.

Sure wish this was 28mm, so I could use the mini's in other games and vice-versa.
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But that's such a foolish and confusing wish to have. Do you sit around wishing that the pieces in Settlers of Catan were more like the figures in Carcasonne?

This was never a valid (or imho, terribly logical) complaint about the system. It was probably one of the lamer reasons I've ever heard board gamers use to gripe about a game (and having been here on BGG for a LONG time now, that's saying something).

shake
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Brian M
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wytefang wrote:
But that's such a foolish and confusing wish to have. Do you sit around wishing that the pieces in Settlers of Catan were more like the figures in Carcasonne?

This was never a valid (or imho, terribly logical) complaint about the system. It was probably one of the lamer reasons I've ever heard board gamers use to gripe about a game (and having been here on BGG for a LONG time now, that's saying something).
shake


There's no reason to expect Settlers and Carcasonne pieces to be compatible. However, the collectible Mutant Chronicles game was something like the 6th Mutant Chronicles miniatures game. People have supplies of Mutant Chronicles figures already, and other skirmish combat games set in the universe already. Of course they want to have the potential to expand the games by including figures from the other games. And 5/6 of them have compatible figures - the CMG is the loser that doesn't.

It also means you can't use the same terrain you've already built. And you can't justify the game just for the minis. As a player of all sorts of games, I can often justify a game with cool minis on the grounds of, say "I'll use the minis in RPGs even if this game sucks". No use when the minis are twice as big as everything else.

While Railways of the World was a "different game" than Railroad Tycoon, it made a heck of a lot of sense to have the track tiles the same size so you could use any expansions for Railroad Tycoon with Railways of the World.

The size of miniatures in the Mutant Chronicles is not only a valid complaint, it's a valid big deal.

(Plus, the game kind of sucked )
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This was absolutely one of my favourite games and I was terribly disappointed when it was discontinued.

The argument about the size of the figs did not phase me one bit. What I had a problem with was with the outrageous way FFG did the marketing and since then I don't rely on FFG games anymore as they focus their energy more about promotion then product.

I keep hearing about this system is not unique but I have not run across any games which focus on balancing the different aspects of the game (or more specifically 'army' creation). Most figurine games base their army building system on points (army value is X amount which is distributed by unit types, abilities, spells, weapons, etc). Case and point, any Warhammer game, Mageknight, and to a lesser extent Anima tactics.

What really set this game apart was the fact that it took the army creating system and made beautifully simple and extremely fun. No 'x' amount of points to distribute for special abilities/ units.

There are 3 'levels': Gold (powerful), Silver (strong) and Bronze (basic). There were 3 elements to distribute those levels: Unit, orders (actions) and tactic. All you had to do was decide overall size. For example, a 5 point game would allow you 5 gold, 5 silver and 5 bronze elements. You got to choose how to distribute those. The thing is you had to balance your 'command orders' as part of your army. I know my explanation is not the best (it's hard to describe without seeing components) as it's not as complicated as it sounds. The OP said that the rules are easy and this is true (we learned it in about 15 minutes). The hardest part of this game is balancing your army, tactics and how many orders (actions) per unit and/or turn. However, unlike other minis/war games, it's not as much about calculating point values.

I guess what I'm trying to say (probably failing miserably at that) is that the mechanics of army building are what made this one of my favourite games by far.

Cheers!
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Brian M
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Quote:
I guess what I'm trying to say (probably failing miserably at that) is that the mechanics of army building are what made this one of my favourite games by far.

Perhaps this is part of why I disliked the game so much. I tend to consider army-building a neccessary evil to get to the fun part of actually playing the game
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
I guess what I'm trying to say (probably failing miserably at that) is that the mechanics of army building are what made this one of my favourite games by far.

Perhaps this is part of why I disliked the game so much. I tend to consider army-building a neccessary evil to get to the fun part of actually playing the game


I can definitely see your point StormKnight because most of the strategy does come from that aspect of army building. However, they simplified the 'army building' itself by not having to worry about point values. Creating an army is easy because of that fact. Creating a GOOD army, however, required a strategy which included somewhat of a balancing act...

Agree to disagree?

Cheers!
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
I guess what I'm trying to say (probably failing miserably at that) is that the mechanics of army building are what made this one of my favourite games by far.

Perhaps this is part of why I disliked the game so much. I tend to consider army-building a neccessary evil to get to the fun part of actually playing the game


Yes, and I think this would lead you to want to buy more expansions. This is part of the fun of the game.
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Let's correct some facts real quick here (sorta glad I stumbled onto this today):

1. I didn't even remotely lose my job over the "failure of the system." I was laid off along with quite a few other people when FFG realized that they'd hired too many marketers at once and didn't need as many as they had. I was one of the last ones hired, first one fired/laid-off (as the saying goes). The game wasn't canceled until a couple months after I'd left. Also, I wasn't on the design team at all - I was a low-level Marketing Coordinator for Mutant Chronicles and miniatures in general, at FFG.

2. I wasn't bitter about losing the job, though I was disappointed that it wasn't what I'd hoped it would be (to work for a game company). A lot of eye-opening experiences, that's for sure. I suspect that working at a different company might have worked out better for me but who knows, it's all water under the bridge now. My current position pays 3x what I made there so I shouldn't complain (though with my son's issues, it's probably a good thing I have a decent job at this point in time)!

3. I'm not bitter that the game failed, either (though it should've done better, in general) because I had no decision-making capabilites on any important design or marketing decision, so it didn't really reflect on me at all.

4. The only bitterness was probably that fellow gaming geeks, who should have had the intelligence to see and recognize a quality gaming system (specifically referring to the gameplay rules) failed to do so. Usually us gamers are a bright lot, in general. But in this case, the failure to recognize the quality of the skirmish system only served to remind me that people in groups aren't always as terribly bright as we might think they are or should be. Gripes like the ones about the scale just make gamers look frikkin' boneheaded.

Then you have things like the laughable review done by Matt Drake over at HeroScapers.com when the game was just launching (which is surprising because usually Matt's reviews seem well researched and accurate) where he had clearly gotten at least 2 rules incorrect and hadn't seemed to have even played the game more than once or twice... THAT was enough to make anyone frustrated and maybe even a bit bitter, I suppose. I don't mind people disliking any game because of personal preferences or whatever but to rip on it without even knowing how to properly play it makes me a sad panda.
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Jayson Myers
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I think this is a product you can be proud of. Not every product, even if superior, won't sell like it is (i.e. VHS vs Beta).

I'm not into these type of games enough to be an expert, but this seemed like a fine system and a good game. I came into it very late (after it was dead and way after it was dead).

I do not know the history of this game or the history of you. I did read your comments where you said your child was sick, so I will hope and pray for your child. I've two young ones so I can imagine how scary that must be.

I've also had jobs where they were not what I thought they were going to be; so goes life I guess. I've also been blamed for things I had nothing to do with and have been given credit the same way. I hope it balances

Thanks for commenting and I wish you nothing but luck in your future endeavors.

wytefang wrote:
Let's correct some facts real quick here (sorta glad I stumbled onto this today):

1. I didn't even remotely lose my job over the "failure of the system." I was laid off along with quite a few other people when FFG realized that they'd hired too many marketers at once and didn't need as many as they had. I was one of the last ones hired, first one fired/laid-off (as the saying goes). The game wasn't canceled until a couple months after I'd left. Also, I wasn't on the design team at all - I was a low-level Marketing Coordinator for Mutant Chronicles and miniatures in general, at FFG.

2. I wasn't bitter about losing the job, though I was disappointed that it wasn't what I'd hoped it would be (to work for a game company). A lot of eye-opening experiences, that's for sure. I suspect that working at a different company might have worked out better for me but who knows, it's all water under the bridge now. My current position pays 3x what I made there so I shouldn't complain (though with my son's issues, it's probably a good thing I have a decent job at this point in time)!

3. I'm not bitter that the game failed, either (though it should've done better, in general) because I had no decision-making capabilites on any important design or marketing decision, so it didn't really reflect on me at all.

4. The only bitterness was probably that fellow gaming geeks, who should have had the intelligence to see and recognize a quality gaming system (specifically referring to the gameplay rules) failed to do so. Usually us gamers are a bright lot, in general. But in this case, the failure to recognize the quality of the skirmish system only served to remind me that people in groups aren't always as terribly bright as we might think they are or should be. Gripes like the ones about the scale just make gamers look frikkin' boneheaded.

Then you have things like the laughable review done by Matt Drake over at HeroScapers.com when the game was just launching (which is surprising because usually Matt's reviews seem well researched and accurate) where he had clearly gotten at least 2 rules incorrect and hadn't seemed to have even played the game more than once or twice... THAT was enough to make anyone frustrated and maybe even a bit bitter, I suppose. I don't mind people disliking any game because of personal preferences or whatever but to rip on it without even knowing how to properly play it makes me a sad panda.
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Thanks, Jayson. I really appreciate it. Noah is doing a LOT better these days so I'm grateful for that.

I know that SuperFlyPete was just banned from BGG (I think temporarily) but he has decided to quit frequenting this site and has removed his posts, so thus making my remarks a bit confusing at this point) but he's actually a decent guy and he wasn't trying to rip on me, per se, but I dislike it when facts are put out there that aren't correct. Thus my reply trying to clarify things and lay out what exactly happened.
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