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Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Alliance» Forums » Rules

Subject: Negotiating with Schizoid rss

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Jimmy Sorel
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Played with the Schizoid for the first time last night and a question came up:

Is the Schizoid player allowed to offer a reveal of the win condition during a negotiation? Like "I'll show you the win condition card if you give me one colony."
 
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Ian Toltz
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In brightest day / In blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power--Green Lantern's light!
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I believe he is not allowed to. He could offer to tell the player, but unless you're using house rules all table talk has to be public so then everyone else would know as well.
 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Titaniumator wrote:
Is the Schizoid player allowed to offer a reveal of the win condition during a negotiation?

That's an interesting question. Officially, a deal must include either a card or colony changing hands (which you've obviously got covered in this example), and other non-tangible things are allowed but non-binding. For example, you could offer a promise to ally or invite at the next opportunity, or a promise to give a certain card to an enemy next encounter if you are Philanthropist, etc.

However, there's also a rule that you aren't allowed to arbitrarily show your cards. This is generally stated in the context of your hand, but I think it's a fair assumption that Schizoid, Miser, Cryo, The Claw, Saboteur, etc. cannot just arbitrarily show their "special" cards (or tokens) either.

The question is, which of these wins? I'd have to say the "other non-binding things" you can offer in a deal is limited to things that don't break the rules. The allying and philanthropic giving examples are promises to do things within the rules, wheras I'd have to say the schizoid card reveal is an offer to do something against the rules.

On the other hand, the rules allow you to say whatever you want (even if it's a lie), so you could offer to tell the other player what your schizoid card is. He wouldn't know for sure if it's the truth. Now, whether you can whisper that information or would have to state it for all to hear, I can't rightly say I know. My gut tells me there should be a "no whispering" rule.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Asmor wrote:
all table talk has to be public

I agree that this is how it should be, but I'm not sure I've ever seen that officially defined. You don't by any chance have a source I could quote for the Cosmodex, do you?
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Cody Baker
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Silly question and unrelated to the above discussion, but the Schizoid sheet doesn't explicitly say that he gets to see the new winning condition after he's defeated in an encounter. It says the winner(s) of the encounter look at it then it's shuffled back into the deck.

So does Schizoid not know the new victory conditions? Does that new winner(s) have to remember the conditions and announce when they've been achieved? If the card is shuffled back into the deck I guess it's an honor system thing-
 
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Greg Filpus
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saloonstudios wrote:
Silly question and unrelated to the above discussion, but the Schizoid sheet doesn't explicitly say that he gets to see the new winning condition after he's defeated in an encounter. It says the winner(s) of the encounter look at it then it's shuffled back into the deck.

So does Schizoid not know the new victory conditions? Does that new winner(s) have to remember the conditions and announce when they've been achieved? If the card is shuffled back into the deck I guess it's an honor system thing-


The Schizoid card reveal doesn't change the win condition. It just gives the winning player(s) information about one of the choices that wasn't chosen, so they can use process of elimination to figure out the real one.

There is a question of whether or not Schizoid can look at the card he shows so he knows which condition he can't bluff, but I think that falls under the general "you can see private information owned by your power" rule.
 
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Cody Baker
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Oh!
Well good to know for next time. We butchered that one.
 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Don't feel too bad ... Schizoid is pretty screwed up in this edition. The power doesn't tell you that you have to announce when somebody has won the game, its wild flare breaks aliens like Horde, Pygmy, and Symbiote, the way it treats zaps is unnecessarily anomalous, the standard Super has an incorrect and useless timing icon for no good reason, and the "classic edition" Super is a clumsy and unsatisfying punt. Pretty much a design embarrassment all the way around. Without having prior experience playing it in other editions, you're at a disadvantage trying to sleuth out what FFG was thinking on this alien. We don't even use it in our games.
 
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