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Thunderbolt Apache Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: A hovering high-altitude Harrier with GBUs: attack 2 hexes, or 7? rss

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Dave Medeiros
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So, this occurred to me when I was writing up my guide to weapons in TAL, and I'm not sure what the right answer is.
Suppose I have a Harrier hovering at high altitude, loaded with GBUs. Can I only drop the bombs on the hex I'm in and one other adjacent hex of my choosing? Or can I drop GBUs on the hex I'm in and any or all of the surrounding 6 hexes at once?

Here are the relevant rules.
GBUs have the "Independent" characteristic:
"Independent (I): The weapon can attack a Unit outside the one Hex being attacked by your Aircraft, provided that Unit is in the Aircraft's Attack Angle." (rulebook, p.9)

The issue is what the status of the "Attack Angle" is for hovering aircraft. Here are the two sections of the Attack Angle rules (p. 15):

"Moving Aircraft Attack Angle
Moving Aircraft can only Attack an Enemy Unit Counter if it is within the Aircraft's Attack Angle. The Attack Angle diagram is on the Tactical Display Sheet. Only the lighted areas are within the Aircraft's Attack Angle.

Hovering Aircraft Attack Angle
A Hovering Aircraft can Attack into its own Hex or into any other one hex in any direction."

As I see it, the question is whether a hovering aircraft (i) does indeed have an Attack Angle, but gets to freely choose its direction, or (ii) does not have an Attack Angle at all, and the one-other-hex rule takes over instead. Under (i), the Harrier can only drop GBUs on its own hex and one other adjacent hex of its choice; under (ii), it looks like the Harrier can drop GBUs on all of the surrounding hexes at once if you wish.

What do you think?
 
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Andrew Walters
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I think this is a great question. It's a superset of a question I wanted to ask, "how many hexes can you attack with I weapons?"

I have only a rudimentary knowledge of these things, but I think the way those designators work you'll only be able to attack a single target with a single bomb per turn. The problem is time. You designate a target, wherever, and drop, now you have to keep lasing the target point while the bomb falls, which can be anywhere from thirty seconds to two minutes (depending on range and altitude). It can actually be longer from much higher altitudes, but that's B-1B territory, not CAS. A turn is an indeterminate amount of time in TAL, but it sure ain't two minutes.

I would love to hear that you can strike in your hex and drop GBUs in two or three other hexes, but I suspect that's not the case.

I think a hovering aircraft can fire standoff weapons in any direction, but probably not in all directions, mostly for the timing reason above.

What we need to do is get a couple Thunderbolt II pilots and a couple Apache pilots in a room to play through a couple games each and then discuss the game on camera. That would be awesome.
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Dan Verssen
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The "I" weapons can only attack one hex in addition to your targeted hex. Even if you are hovering.
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Dave Medeiros
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Excellent, thanks for the clarification Dan! It's great to have the game designer provide such quick responses to the questions that come up.
Let me say, also, thanks for making such an amazing game. It's an absorbing and satisfying game experience; all the little things come together to make this game "feel right." Keep up the good work!
 
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Andrew Walters
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+1 I'm very glad for the game and for Dan's high-speed answers.

We do need to start an FAQ. I'm sure that this GBU thing is not in the rulebook. Somewhere out there someone is spraying laser-guided bombs into multiple hexes every turn!
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Dan Verssen
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Thank you for the thank you's!

The internet is a huge part of our lives now, and it is an awesome tool for game support.
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michael esposito
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Hovering Jets and Apaches!!!surprise Awesome!cool

Looks like I am gonna get this one tomorrow! whistle
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DK Kemler
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A quick follow up question on hovering aircraft's AoA, does the hex have to be adjacent? The rules don't actually say that, just "any one hex in any direction" (following LOS of course).
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Andrew Walters
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Well, the GBUs have a range of 1 so almost everything is adjacent that's in the Attack Angle. But I guess you could also drop the GBU in your own hex while using a few Mavericks on enemies three hexes away. Quite the trick. Can't see any reason why you couldn't do this, unless Dan says otherwise.
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No No No Sheep
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harrier usually use hover as means to land on carriers, not to attack ala True Lies lol
 
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Georg Bauer
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dprijadi wrote:
harrier usually use hover as means to land on carriers, not to attack ala True Lies lol


But the true-lies-way is much more fun!

Ok, shortly after the atom bomb the movie got a bit surrealist ...
 
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No No No Sheep
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TheGargoyle wrote:
dprijadi wrote:
harrier usually use hover as means to land on carriers, not to attack ala True Lies lol


But the true-lies-way is much more fun!

Ok, shortly after the atom bomb the movie got a bit surrealist ...


the only thing that realistic about true lies is the scene where the terrorist rides on a sidewinder missile..

kidding devil

 
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