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Subject: 6p issues rss

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Paul S
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We played 5 games last night, with 6 players, and found it difficult as Res. There seems to be a significant jump from 5p (which we've played a good bit) to 6p.

It went like this:

1. Spy in 1st pair, but both play win, same in second so we're 2 up for the Res and Spies have established trust so can screw us on missions 3 - 5. Getting 2 x 4p missions is a killer - unless you are 100% right, as Res, you are bound to lose both of these missions. Can't think there's an equivalent in 5p.

2. A repeat of 1 - with the same spies! That didn't help.

3. Another repeat of one - the sniggers from the 2 spies who AGAIN find themselves red give the game away so we abort. Funny, though!

4. We decided to try the "spies don't know each other" variant. Res wins on mission 5, spies complain it's too random, I think that's fair comment. The fun is to play with spies who you know, even if you can't meaningfully cooperate.

5. Plot thicken cards in play, standard rules, we're lucky since the spies are the last 2 out of 6, and the first 4 players manage to choose each other and we have 3/3 missions for blue. But we agree that the 2 spies being last and adjacent has harmed them.

Good fun, as ever, but on the whole Res felt (I was Res x 5!) that the two 4 player missions made it really hard for Res to win, even with the expansion in play.

Tactics include:

a) Spy in first pair votes for success, maybe in mission 2, too, and so wins trust and spies win with 2 later 4p votes and a trust-based vote OR

b) Spy in first pair fails mission, is therefore suspect, but chalks up 1 win and has 2 x 4p missions later with v high chance of success for Spies.

In short, regardless of how we played, we all agreed that the jump up in difficulty for 6p (i.e. 2 x 4p missions) makes life really quite difficult for the Res. We'd sooner play 5, or 7+.

Views most welcome.
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James W
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Beloch wrote:
We played 5 games last night, with 6 players, and found it difficult as Res. There seems to be a significant jump from 5p (which we've played a good bit) to 6p.

It went like this:

1. Spy in 1st pair, but both play win, same in second so we're 2 up for the Res and Spies have established trust so can screw us on missions 3 - 5. Getting 2 x 4p missions is a killer - unless you are 100% right, as Res, you are bound to lose both of these missions. Can't think there's an equivalent in 5p.

2. A repeat of 1 - with the same spies! That didn't help.

3. Another repeat of one - the sniggers from the 2 spies who AGAIN find themselves red give the game away so we abort. Funny, though!

4. We decided to try the "spies don't know each other" variant. Res wins on mission 5, spies complain it's too random, I think that's fair comment. The fun is to play with spies who you know, even if you can't meaningfully cooperate.

5. Plot thicken cards in play, standard rules, we're lucky since the spies are the last 2 out of 6, and the first 4 players manage to choose each other and we have 3/3 missions for blue. But we agree that the 2 spies being last and adjacent has harmed them.

Good fun, as ever, but on the whole Res felt (I was Res x 5!) that the two 4 player missions made it really hard for Res to win, even with the expansion in play.

Tactics include:

a) Spy in first pair votes for success, maybe in mission 2, too, and so wins trust and spies win with 2 later 4p votes and a trust-based vote OR

b) Spy in first pair fails mission, is therefore suspect, but chalks up 1 win and has 2 x 4p missions later with v high chance of success for Spies.

In short, regardless of how we played, we all agreed that the jump up in difficulty for 6p (i.e. 2 x 4p missions) makes life really quite difficult for the Res. We'd sooner play 5, or 7+.

Views most welcome.


How many proposals do you make, on average, before a team is sent?

Do you ever make it to 5?
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Shane Larsen
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I've had games at all player counts that felt lopsided. Something I've noticed is that people always want to blame the game for an unbalanced round, or even series of rounds.

But after 73 plays, with totally different group dynamics, I've learned that the game is as perfectly balanced as a game of this nature can be (in terms of rules and mechanics). And I say that considering ALL PLAYER COUNTS. No other game in this genre has done it better.

If you have a bad night, it's just how things went with the group dynamics and interactions that night. It's not an issue with the game, IMO.

Also, The Plot Thickens cards help to keep things balanced. Always use them--and ensure you're using the right ones for the correct number of players (which I assume you did).

My advice is to keep playing no matter the player count. Who knows, maybe the next time you have 6, you'll have a completely different experience.
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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Win with 3 in M4. 2/4 is about the best split you can hope for for spies/rebels so you would think it would be easy, but it's not, is it...? So shouldn't it be harder with 5, where you have 3 perfect missions?
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Paul S
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Thanks for the replies.

It occurred to me this morning that the same issues apply to 5 as Jay rightly points out!

I suspect we don't challenge missions enough. We never get to 5. Some Groupthink going on there, to the effect that it won't help to challenge - think we need to change that.

And as Shane says, sometimes it just works out differently. We shall keep on playing with all the numbers
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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Rule of chicken is to always have a good reason to SEND a mission, and if you don't, vote it down. This can lead to 4 vote-downs. That's okay, but not ideal. The ideal is to get a mission you can be confident of before #5.
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Tom Steynen
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While the 4 operatives missions in a 6 player game are difficult to win for the resistance, if you win them then you've usually won the game.

I was once on the spy end of a 6p game where the leader, partly by luck, managed to send 4 resistance members on the first 4p mission. I knew then that we (the spies) were doomed. Unless you manged to fail the previous 2 missions, there is no good way to recover from that blow.
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Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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Tekar wrote:
While the 4 operatives missions in a 6 player game are difficult to win for the resistance, if you win them then you've usually won the game.

I was once on the spy end of a 6p game where the leader, partly by luck, managed to send 4 resistance members on the first 4p mission. I knew then that we (the spies) were doomed. Unless you manged to fail the previous 2 missions, there is no good way to recover from that blow.


There is no way to recover from that blow.
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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thedacker wrote:
I've had games at all player counts that felt lopsided. Something I've noticed is that people always want to blame the game for an unbalanced round, or even series of rounds.

But after 73 plays, with totally different group dynamics, I've learned that the game is as perfectly balanced as a game of this nature can be (in terms of rules and mechanics). And I say that considering ALL PLAYER COUNTS. No other game in this genre has done it better.

If you have a bad night, it's just how things went with the group dynamics and interactions that night. It's not an issue with the game, IMO.

Also, The Plot Thickens cards help to keep things balanced. Always use them--and ensure you're using the right ones for the correct number of players (which I assume you did).

My advice is to keep playing no matter the player count. Who knows, maybe the next time you have 6, you'll have a completely different experience.


I agree. This game is as balanced as it can be. Sometimes the resistance or the sabo's get lucky early but if they get really lucky then the game is normally fast anyway. Regardless, it is a great game. I definetaly prefer it with 7+ but it has been fun with every number of players.
 
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