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War of the Ring (First Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Another Question about FSP Movement and Re-rolls. rss

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William La Sala
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First, I want to thank all you designers, game testers, afficianados,
enthusiasts and fans for contributing to this forum. WotR might now be tied with Axis/Allies 1940 Global for my favorite board game of all time.

Now my question about FSP movement and re-rolls:

2nd ed. rule book pg. 41: "If, during the Hunt, the Ring-bearers are in a region that contains one or more of the following:" .....

A) A Stonghold...
B) Shadow Army unit(s)
C) Nazgul(s)

Let's skip option "A" because that was clarified for me several threads back in this forum.

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but; Do the Shadow units/Nazgul need to be in the region where the Fellowship starts or where they end?

For example: Let's say the FSP figure is in The Fords of Bruinen, the
progress counter is on 1 and hidden. There is a Nazgul in
The Fords,one in the High Pass and one in Goblin's Gate.
The FP uses a character die to move the FSP. The Hunt is
sucessful and also reveals the FSP. The FSP figure moves
from The Fords to a)High Pass or b)Goblin's Gate? AND SP
gets a re-roll because of which Nazgul? The one where it
started or the one where it ended it's move whether it's
High Pass or Goblin's Gate?

 
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Einmal ist keinmal
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Where it started. Those rerolls are based on the Last Known Position of the FSP (at the start of the action).

Otherwise, it would be senseless for the Sauron player to even bother moving Nazgul and/or an Army to the region with the FSP figure if the FP player could just declare or reveal somewhere else and avoid the rerolls.
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Ralf Schemmann
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This becomes clear when you consider when a reroll happens: Just after the normal hunt roll, before any hunt tiles are drawn.

Let's look at your example and assume there are two eyes in the hunt box.

- the FP player moves the Fellowship. Fhe Fellowship marker is moved to the 2 position.
- the Shadow player rolls for the hunt. Say he rolls 3 and 6 - as it is the first move in the round, that's 1 success.
- NOW he gets to reroll 1 die for the Nazgul present at the Fords. He rolls the 3 and gets another 6. So he now has two successes.
- Only then does he draw a hunt tile, knowing that he has 2 successes (meaning an eye will count as a 2). No more rerolls will be done for this action after this point.

Seeing that, it's clear that only reroll options in the Fellowship's CURRENT REGION (that's where their figure is) at the start of the move can have any influence on the hunt roll.



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William La Sala
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OK. Thanks to both of you for answering.

I guess I thought it was a strategy thing trying to move
your Nazgul and units to places where you thought the FSP
might try and go; that would make it really feel like a
"hunt".

It just seems like the SP doesn't have a very good chance at a
successful hunt or re-roll. Even if the FP gets caught on space
3 of the progress counter on his way to the High Pass and is
revealed the FSP figure is still in Rivendell where I can't
fly any Nazgul for the re-roll unless I move quick at beginning
of game to put it under seige. I guess putting Eye dice in the
Hunt Box early on improves your chances of a reveal on the FSP's
first 2 or 3 moves so you can catch them in the open somewhere
between Rivendell and Lorien or somewhere else if they decide
to take another road less traveled to Mordor.
 
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Andy Latto
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kaiser wilhelm iv wrote:
OK. Thanks to both of you for answering.

I guess I thought it was a strategy thing trying to move
your Nazgul and units to places where you thought the FSP
might try and go; that would make it really feel like a
"hunt".

I think of it as the Nazgul going to where they last heard that Baggins was, and asking people there if there were any reports of Baggins and where he had gone, which feels like a hunt.

Spreading Nazgul out over places the Fellowship might go next, as you mention, can be useful if you have the time and Nazgul to spare; that way, if the Fellowship is revealed, it either has to go where you have placed a Nazgul, giving you a reroll on the next hunt, or go somewhere else, which if you've placed the Nazgul properly, will be a less efficient path to Mordor.

But it sounds like you're still misunderstanding something, based on the next paragraph:

Quote:
It just seems like the SP doesn't have a very good chance at a
successful hunt or re-roll. Even if the FP gets caught on space
3 of the progress counter on his way to the High Pass and is
revealed the FSP figure is still in Rivendell

No. If the FP gets caught and is revealed, the last known position of the fellowship will be moved to somewhere other than Rivendell. Now you can place the Nazgul on that space, and get a reroll in future hunt rolls.

The Reroll isn't something to extract a further reward after a successful hunt roll; it's something to increase the chance of a successful hunt roll happening in the first place.
Quote:
I guess putting Eye dice in the
Hunt Box early on improves your chances of a reveal on the FSP's
first 2 or 3 moves so you can catch them in the open somewhere
between Rivendell and Lorien

That's one approach. Most people find that the more effective way to have successful hunts is to press the military side of the game aggressively. The sooner you threaten to have 10 points conquered, the faster the FP have to move the fellowship, and the more times they move in a turn, the higher the risk.
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C M
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And to add to that: if the FSP is indeed revealed, the FSP figure cannot be put into a region containing a FP city or Stronghold (even if your amount of available movements would allow this), which exposes your FSP in further moves, as FP cities or Strongholds block Nazgul from moving there unless they are besieged.
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Ralf Schemmann
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Let's continue the hunt example from above.

- The Shadow player has rolled two successes on the hunt and gets to draw a hunt tile.
- He draws a "2r"
- He FP player decides to sacrifice the guide (eg Gandalf the Grey) to stop the damage. Gandalf is removed and Strider becomes the new guide.
- Now the reveal is resolved. As stated earlier, the Fellowship marker is at the 2 position of the track.
- Accordingly the Fellowship may move up to two regions on the board. But as it is revealed through the hunt, it may NOT end up in a Free stronghold or city. This means it cannot remain in Rivendell.
- The FP player could move it to Moria, but that would mean another hunt tile would be drawn for the stronghold. So he decides to move them to Goblin Gate.
- The Fellowship marker is moved to the 0 position (no matter how far the Fellowship actually moved) and flipped over to the revealed side.
- The FP players action is over and the action die used to move the Fellowship is placed in the hunt box.

If there is a Nazgul in Goblin Gate at this point, it does not have an immediate effect, but note that it will provide a reroll for the next hunt. That's why it sometimes DOES make sense to move Nazgul to regions where the Fellowship might end up. As you can move multiple Nazgul with one character die, it can save you an action.
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William La Sala
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Thanks for that well explained example; and to all the others cite above. I now fully understand how this Hunt thing works.
 
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Jay P

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Tako wrote:
as FP cities or Strongholds block Nazgul from moving there unless they are besieged.


FP cities don't block Nazgul.

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Yes, I stand corrected. Only FP strongholds not under siege block Nazgul.
 
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