Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
23 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design

Subject: How to display point totals rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
michael brown
United States
SANDY
Ut
flag msg tools
designer
playtesthub.firebaseapp.com
badge
patreon.com/theTrueMikeBrown
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey Folks,

I have been working on a card game for over a year now, and I have recently started looking into getting it printed.

The game currently has cards as well as a strategy board for each player (which also keeps track of current point totals for that player.)

Looking at the cost of printing 4 glossy card-stock boards as well as adding in 8 tokens and having to bump up the size of the box to accommodate those parts leaves me wanting a cheaper option (it looks like all told the strategy boards will cost me ~$6 (the cost of the bigger box is $5 of that))

Since the game is looking like it will cost ~$12 to produce without any box, that is %33 of the entire cost of the game for a thing that is not even important to the mechanics of the game.

I brain stormed and decided that the board could easily be replaced by a set of cards for the strategies (each player has their own set - sort of like Race for the Galaxy), but the point counting would be more difficult to replace. Here are some options that I came up with so far (In increasing order of cost)

0) Tell the players 'use a piece of paper to keep track of your point total' much like Munchkin does with levels.

1) Each person has two double sided cards which look like this:
+--------+ +--------+ +--------+ +--------+
| 1 ^ 2| | 8 9 10| |17 18 19| |26 ^ 27|
| | | | | | | | | |
| 3 | 4| |11 12 13| |20 21 22| |28 | 29|
| | | | | | | |
| 5 6 7| |14 15 16| |23 24 25| |30 31 32|
+--------+ +--------+ +--------+ +--------+

They place the arrow of one card on the point value that they are at (on the other card) When they go over 32 points the game is over (as has for a long time been the rules) so at that point they declare that they are over 32 points and then they place the arrow on the number that indicates how much they exceeded 32 points by. This reasonably goes up to 32, and if you remember that you are above 32 you can go up to 64 reasonably as well.

2) Each person has a set of 6 cards numbered: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32. They put them all face down except for the cards that add up to their point total (There is only one possible way to get any given point total with this method, and it is fairly easy to tell what point total every one is at). This reasonably goes up to 63, however going above that would be hard (not that you need to go over 63 often).

3) Each person has a set of 7 cards numbered: 1, 1, 1, 1, 5, 10, 20. They put them all face down except for the cards that add up to their point total. This goes up to 39 reasonably, however going above that would be hard (and that is a pickle, since games fairly often end with multiple players in the 40s)

4) 'Splay' (as explained by aVoidGames below)

Options 2 and 3 would make the game cost increase by ~$1.50, options 1, 2, and 4 would not affect the cost of the game at all (I have 12 cards right now on which I have nothing to print). If you have any feedback about any of these methods, please tell me.

Superior feedback (such as coming up with a new mechanism for scoring that is used) will be rewarded with geek gold.

(Edited to add new options)

-Mike
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All of the card based solutions look and feel clunky.

Look at other games that keep score:

Bridge (on paper)
Tichu (on paper)
Yahtzee (on special score pad that you could probably recreate in your sleep)

Just tell the players to keep score. They'll figure it out.

For a card game, there's generally no expectation of a scoring method being included in the tuck box.

You can use those remaining 12 cards as reminders/strategy/etc, or figure out a way to include them in the game proper...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick OLeary
United States
Roosevelt
New Jersey
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You can do something like Dixit does and have the scoring track on the box itself. Dixit puts it on the box insert, but you get the idea.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
いい竹やぶだ!

South Euclid
Ohio
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
If the game involves lots of very small score increases, a cribbage board would work beautifully.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Proleary wrote:
You can do something like Dixit does and have the scoring track on the box itself. Dixit puts it on the box insert, but you get the idea.


This would still require the inclusion of tokens, which then creates a non-standard card box.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael brown
United States
SANDY
Ut
flag msg tools
designer
playtesthub.firebaseapp.com
badge
patreon.com/theTrueMikeBrown
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, if I read the replies correctly, we have one vote for option 0, and two votes for option -1 (add in additional components to keep track of the scoring).

I am leaning toward option 0 (asking around at work, most people are willing to grab paper and pencil before they are willing to figure out a score recording mechanic, or do math).

That is not to say that I have made a decision, I will continue checking this thread periodically to see if any new ideas occur.

In reply to King Ævil - yes, the scoring does occur in many small increments (the most points that you can score in a normal action is 4, however you can make multiple scoring moves in one turn). A cribbage type scoring board would be perfect from a functional standpoint, however adding a cribbage type board would defeat the purpose of removing the score boards to shrink the box.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John A. White
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
byronczimmer wrote:
Proleary wrote:
You can do something like Dixit does and have the scoring track on the box itself. Dixit puts it on the box insert, but you get the idea.


This would still require the inclusion of tokens, which then creates a non-standard card box.

but the 4 sided card thing needs a marker right?

I'll think of a semantic solution.
What about Splay?!?!

Top Card cover all (move up to show +1)
Second card cover column 2,3,4,5
Bottom card 1-50 table.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael brown
United States
SANDY
Ut
flag msg tools
designer
playtesthub.firebaseapp.com
badge
patreon.com/theTrueMikeBrown
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
aVoidGames wrote:

but the 4 sided card thing needs a marker right?

I'll think of a semantic solution.


The 2 sided cards each use the arrow printed on the other card as a marker, like this (if my ascii art makes any sense):

+--------+
| 8 9 10|
| +--------+
|11|26 ^ 27|
| | | |
|14|28 | 29|
+--| |
|30 31 32|
+--------+


the arrow of the top card is pointing to the 10 on the bottom card, and so the player has 10 points

I am not sure that I understand your description of Splay... does it have anything to do with this game?

(edited to reply to edit in post above)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John A. White
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


Maybe if you sleeve the logo top card it will slide real nice.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael brown
United States
SANDY
Ut
flag msg tools
designer
playtesthub.firebaseapp.com
badge
patreon.com/theTrueMikeBrown
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That is certainly a reasonable solution that uses only cards.

It would use all of my extra cards (as I have 3 cards extra per player right now).

I will add that option as option 4 to my original post.

Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jessey
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
I also purchased this and do not know what to do with it!
badge
I purchased this and do not know what to do with it!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Euchre players handle scoring from 1-10 using 2 cards. The easiest way is done with the pair of 5's (some use a 2 and a 3 while others use a 4 and a 6. The 2 and 3 method is the only one I've ever found to require an explanation beyond 'count the pips'). Below shows a score of 6 using two 5's:



If you had zero points the top card is face down covering the bottom card entirely. When you get 1 point you shift the top card (face down) to show the top left symbol (a heart in this case). When you get 5 points you slide the top card off the bottom card, and for six see the image above.

Using 2 cards, one is double sided, I can imagine how to use a similar mechanism to track a score of up to - probably - 36 points (12 pips on a card, special coloured/shaped pips on the back of the bottom card). Heck, probably up to 48 points now that I think of it (with 2 cards, only one of which is double sided).
2 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Peavy
United States
Americus
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Something similar to what you have in mind is part of The Penguin Ultimatum (card game, bridge deck sized box, 110 cards):

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/160660/the-penguin-ultima...

This would use 2 cards per player and something (cheap chits or in this case glass beads) to mark the score.

I also like the three card option that you had here.

Good luck.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Peavy
United States
Americus
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was also thinking of euchre's way of handling scoring...

Candi wrote:
Euchre players handle scoring from 1-10 using 2 cards. The easiest way is done with the pair of 5's (some use a 2 and a 3 while others use a 4 and a 6. The 2 and 3 method is the only one I've ever found to require an explanation beyond 'count the pips'). Below shows a score of 6 using two 5's:



If you had zero points the top card is face down covering the bottom card entirely. When you get 1 point you shift the top card (face down) to show the top left symbol (a heart in this case). When you get 5 points you slide the top card off the bottom card, and for six see the image above.

Using 2 cards, one is double sided, I can imagine how to use a similar mechanism to track a score of up to - probably - 36 points (12 pips on a card, special coloured/shaped pips on the back of the bottom card). Heck, probably up to 48 points now that I think of it (with 2 cards, only one of which is double sided).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For any of these 'manipulate card' solutions, I would be more likely to forgo the complicated manipulations and would instead just grab a pen and paper.

Tichu keeps coming to mind. You're just told to keep score, done. It's two decks of cards in a box with a folded sheet for the rules.

If the goal is to reduce expense, the simplest solution is the ink it takes to write 'keep score on a piece of paper' in the rules.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
theTrueMikeBrown wrote:
So, if I read the replies correctly, we have one vote for option 0, and two votes for option -1 (add in additional components to keep track of the scoring).


Of those bothering to reply, sure, but that doesn't count thumbs or people reading a solution and not bothering because it's already been suggested.

If you want a slightly broader group, consider making a poll.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael brown
United States
SANDY
Ut
flag msg tools
designer
playtesthub.firebaseapp.com
badge
patreon.com/theTrueMikeBrown
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok, it looks like I should wait for any more unique ideas and then probably make a poll to get the real results.

Candi - I like your idea as well - I will add it to the poll.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jessey
Canada
flag msg tools
designer
I also purchased this and do not know what to do with it!
badge
I purchased this and do not know what to do with it!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
theTrueMikeBrown wrote:

Candi - I like your idea as well - I will add it to the poll.


I had a few minutes of free time so I whipped up an example. With these 2 cards you can score from 0-40. 10 dots on the front and back one one card (the back has a "20" label to indicate that it is 20 plus dots). The second card has a blank 'front' and a big "10" on the back to indicate your score is 10 plus dots.



0-10 are green dots only with top card face down
11-20 are green dots with top card face up (showing the 10)
21-30 are purple dots only with top card face down
31-40 are purple dots with top card face up (showing the 10)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Canada
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would suggest a single card:

|------|
|---1-6|
|1--2-7|
|2--3-8|
|3--4-9|
|---5-0|
|------|

So 25 would be:
|------|
|---1-6|
|1--2-7|
|X--3-8|
|3--4-9|
|---X-0|
|------|

Then suggest for them to use tokens like a 'penny'.

I don't think this unreasonable.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Canada
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
or do a coil card with a counter on it like a dime or a penny?:

1__2__3__4__5
20_21_22_23_6
19_32____24_7
18_31____25_8
17_30____26_9
16_29_28_27_10
15_14_13_12_11
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmb
Yeah, you're overthinking this. A scoring track -- like Dixit -- is cute, but unnecessary. Cards covered in numbers or dots are overcomplicated, and will probably come out looking clunky.

byronczimmer wrote:

thumbsup
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael brown
United States
SANDY
Ut
flag msg tools
designer
playtesthub.firebaseapp.com
badge
patreon.com/theTrueMikeBrown
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks everyone for your answers.

I have posted a poll here.

tumorous, Paper and pencil is the easiest to add to the game, it is just that scores change a lot during the game (both gaining and losing points), and all my playtesters are used to having a easily modifiable method of scoring. I personally was leaning toward paper and pencil before I posted this thread, I just wanted to give everyone the option to show me a better way of doing it.

I figure that this poll will at least give a bunch of people a chance to chime in as to what they would prefer (and if I include a point tracking mechanism that people don't like, they can always fall back to paper and pencil - like how no-one that I know uses the bullets or mats in 'Bang' to track their health)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Rogers
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Here's a method I was considering when working on a cards-only dungeon delver game.

Each player has two cards, the first card has a "1" and "2" on the front side like so:

+---+
| 1 |
| |
| 2 |
+---+
except that the "2" is rotated 180 degrees. The back of the card has "3" and "4" in the same way.

The other card has "5", "10", "15" and "20" in the same manner.

The two cards are turned sideways. When the player earns her first point she rotates the first card such that the one is right-side-up to her. On her second point, rotate the card so the "2" is up, flip for the third, rotate for the fourth.

On the fifth point, turn the first card sideways and the second card such that the "5" is up. For the sixth point turn the first card up so that the "1" is showing (the values of the two cards are always added together). The next three points involve manipulation of the first card, then the second card is rotated to 10 and the first card is turned sideways.

In this manner, you can get up to 24 points with only two cards. Going up and down is fairly easy (this was originally designed for HP/Mana) the large numbers mean that reading upside down across the table should be fairly easy.

Other than that, I'm in the pen&paper camp.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.