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Subject: Couple Clarification Questions rss

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Briar Bowser
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Brandon
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Hey guys,
Just played my first game of Lyssan last night with two of my friends, and from this first play it seems like a pretty cool game so far. (Ignoring the fact that I didn't all that great!)

However we ran into a couple situations where one person interpreted a card one way, and somebody else another way. (I swear the hardest part of making a game is explaining the rules)

And so, without further ado we had the following questions about the cards:

"Forged Orders":
With this one we had a small discussion and we came to an agreement, but since we did discuss it I figured I'd double check.
The way we decided this works is that you're able to move a rival's agent from the province (that you have a spy in) as if it were that agents turn. I.e. you can move him into an adjacent province. Is this correct?

"Meddling":
Now with this one, we're not sure if you take an additional action (in addition to the single one priests get) and this additional action is taken from the spies action list. Or if this temporarily "converts", if you will, the priest into a spy and so you still only take a single action.

"Arenamaster"/Other cards where you take an extra item during taxation:
I'm pretty positive I know how these work, but I figured I'd double check. Do you take the extra resource (Conscript in the case of Arenamaster) even if you don't take any other resources of that type, or do you have to first get a conscript (from claiming a province) to take the extra one?

Vassal Courtier cards:
If these cards are stolen, is the player who stole it able to hire one of the agents at no cost, or is the "hire at no cost" a one-time deal?

Those are the only questions we have the moment, but we'll be playing again soon so I'll post if we come up with anymore.

Thanks,
Briar
 
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Sam Brown
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DarthDie wrote:
"Forged Orders":
With this one we had a small discussion and we came to an agreement, but since we did discuss it I figured I'd double check.
The way we decided this works is that you're able to move a rival's agent from the province (that you have a spy in) as if it were that agents turn. I.e. you can move him into an adjacent province. Is this correct
That's correct.

DarthDie wrote:
"Meddling":
Now with this one, we're not sure if you take an additional action (in addition to the single one priests get) and this additional action is taken from the spies action list. Or if this temporarily "converts", if you will, the priest into a spy and so you still only take a single action.
Meddling gives the priest an immediate bonus action, and that action is chosen from the actions available to spies.*

Regarding "does it 'convert' a priest to a spy temporarily: All commands (such as playing and resolving cards, activating agents, etc) are atomic. That is, you finish each one before you start the next. So even if it did convert the priest to be a spy, Meddling would be finished before you'd have a moment to play another card on top of the temporary spy.

*: Specifically, it's chosen from the actions available to YOUR spies. So if you've played the card "Assassins" it could also use the new action option there.

DarthDie wrote:
"Arenamaster"/Other cards where you take an extra item during taxation:
I'm pretty positive I know how these work, but I figured I'd double check. Do you take the extra resource (Conscript in the case of Arenamaster) even if you don't take any other resources of that type, or do you have to first get a conscript (from claiming a province) to take the extra one?
You take 1 extra of the resource at the start of Summer regardless of what territories you hold. So if you had Arenamaster and no farmland provinces, you'd get 1 conscript. If you had Arenamaster and four Farmland provinces, you'd get 5 conscripts.

And notice that taxation only happens in Summer. These cards grant no bonus resources in the Autumn round. (Exception: The promo card "Slavery" explicitly states that it produces in Autumn.)

DarthDie wrote:
Vassal Courtier cards:
If these cards are stolen, is the player who stole it able to hire one of the agents at no cost, or is the "hire at no cost" a one-time deal?
It's a one-time bonus hire when the card first hits the table. A player who steals the card does not also get a free hire: They just get all the agents of the vassal faction, including the ones already in play.


P.S. Anyone else have questions? I'm working on the FAQ to post on Lyssan.com. Other requests for clarification are welcome.
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Marc Buchanan
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Sam,

Thanks for the reply on this. Something that came up in the first game I played. For the priest's ready a spy action and the noble's ready a priest action, do the targets have to be in the same province as the the agent taking the action?

The triumphs in the early part of the game involved having the most courtiers. Some of our turns went: buy a spy, ready with a priest, move the spy, ready with a priest, move the spy, use a noble to ready the two priests, rinse/repeat until the spy got to a castle to steal a courtier. Just wondering if that was legit or did we mess something up.

Thanks
 
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Sam Brown
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sartorissnopes wrote:
Something that came up in the first game I played. For the priest's ready a spy action and the noble's ready a priest action, do the targets have to be in the same province as the the agent taking the action?

An agent always has to be in the same space as its target to act on them. The same way a knight can't kill another knight across the continent, a priest actually has to be there to ready a spy, a noble has to actually be there to ready the priest, etc.

(Official version on rules page 13)
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Melissa Johnson
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I have a question. can you play a influence card if the effect does not apply. The situation that came up was with the card "pulling the leash". The player it would of been played on did not actually have any debt but it allowed its player to manipulate the situation to get rid of three influence cards and secure a better turn order in the next year.

In the end we decided it may be "legal" but didn't really follow the spirt of the game play. So was it a legal play?
 
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Sam Brown
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You can play a card so long as you can pay its cost in cards. If it doesn't have a legal target, it just fizzles.

I'd considered having it go the other way, where the card had to have a target to play, but that's one more explicit rule/gotcha, and the fewer of those there can be in the game, the better. If it turns out to be a real problem, we might revisit this one in a later edition. But from what I've seen so far, it works best this way.
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Keith
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Hi Sam. Thanks for the great game. I played my first tonight. A question came up: if in spring there is a tie for the triumph to be awarded, are we still supposed to reveal another triumph? Both the rulebook and player mats could be interpreted to mean that revealing was conditional with a triumph being awarded that season, but that didn't seem very thematic so we decided to reveal another and have two to be awarded the following spring (unless there were still ties then). Did we play it correctly?
 
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Sam Brown
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You did it right. You always reveal a new triumph each spring, after the awards are over, whether or not one was awarded.

That's one of the things that keeps the game marching towards a guaranteed finish rather than being able to stall out.
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Greg Cooksey
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When I play a Vassal Courtier card, does the immediate agent I get from it come into play exhausted or ready? When we played, we ruled that it came in exhausted like other agents you buy, but I'm not sure if the rules say explicitly one way or the other.
 
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Jonathan Ramundi
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ldd23 wrote:
When I play a Vassal Courtier card, does the immediate agent I get from it come into play exhausted or ready? When we played, we ruled that it came in exhausted like other agents you buy, but I'm not sure if the rules say explicitly one way or the other.
The cards reads "hire" one agent at no cost. By default, hired agents always come into play exhausted.

In other words, you played it correctly.
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Sam Brown
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Jotora wrote:
ldd23 wrote:
When I play a Vassal Courtier card, does the immediate agent I get from it come into play exhausted or ready? When we played, we ruled that it came in exhausted like other agents you buy, but I'm not sure if the rules say explicitly one way or the other.
The cards reads "hire" one agent at no cost. By default, hired agents always come into play exhausted.
Jonathan's right, per usual.
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Jonathan Ramundi
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baudot wrote:
Jotora wrote:
ldd23 wrote:
When I play a Vassal Courtier card, does the immediate agent I get from it come into play exhausted or ready? When we played, we ruled that it came in exhausted like other agents you buy, but I'm not sure if the rules say explicitly one way or the other.
The cards reads "hire" one agent at no cost. By default, hired agents always come into play exhausted.
Jonathan's right, per usual.
 
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Peter Elsenheimer
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What happens to vassal courtier agents when they're slain? Rather, are slain vassal courtier agents shame to the representing faction, and if so, may they return exhausted to a castle if a debt card is taken?

I believe that what occurs is as the rules state "So long as she keeps this courtier these agents are her agents", or my reworking "so long as she keeps this vassal courtier these agents are treated in every way just as her sworn ever loyal agents." But, I desire confirmation on this extrapolation, please.

Awesome game! A real pleasure! I'll be teaching it at U-Con!
 
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Jonathan Ramundi
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pdrseuss wrote:
are slain vassal courtier agents shame to the representing faction,
Yes.

pdrseuss wrote:
and if so, may they return exhausted to a castle if a debt card is taken?
Yes.
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Sam Brown
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Indeed. Vassals are kept as shame, the same as your core faction units.

It's likely that in a future supplement, there will be an advanced rule that shame from dead vassals can be cleared at no cost. If you want to start playing with that as a house rule, go for it. It's something I was on the verge of putting in the main game to give people one more reason to want vassals. But in the name of keeping the rules as thin and uncomplicated as possible, it got stripped out.
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Keith
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baudot wrote:
It's likely that in a future supplement, there will be an advanced rule that shame from dead vassals can be cleared at no cost. If you want to start playing with that as a house rule, go for it. It's something I was on the verge of putting in the main game to give people one more reason to want vassals. But in the name of keeping the rules as thin and uncomplicated as possible, it got stripped out.


Whoa, awesome. There simply aren't enough reasons to want vassals now since they can be stolen.
 
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Miguel Duran
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Would the rule for clearing shame from a dead vassal essentially be it goes away at no cost OR, at your option, you can return said vassal to the board if you choose to incur a debt? I could see that giving some nice flexibility.

And yes, I agree that that would make vassals much more useful. Our group was playing with the (wrong!) cutthroat belief that dead pieces were permanently removed from the game, so vassals, despite their risks, had a ton of value to us in our first game last night. Playing correctly, I think you'd want this house rule to make vassals worth their cost and risk.
 
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Sam Brown
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JaydedOne wrote:
Would the rule for clearing shame from a dead vassal essentially be it goes away at no cost OR, at your option, you can return said vassal to the board if you choose to incur a debt? I could see that giving some nice flexibility.

The rule should be that you may immediately re-hire the agent, at no cost (other than taking the debt).

If the agent is a vassal that's been stolen by a rival, this can be a strange circumstance: You are paying to re-hire an agent that now is controlled by an enemy. And since you are the player hiring it, it appears at one of your castles. You'd best trust the player you're re-hiring it for.

A strict reading of the rules says that when you take a debt, the vassal IS re-hired, (pg.7) Looking back on it, that's not the intent. Consider it official errata that a player MAY re-hire an agent when they take a debt, but they aren't obliged to. If your opponent has stolen a vassal from you, and you don't want to bring it back threatening your own castle, you can opt not to.

...there. I've added it to the official FAQ.
http://lyssan.com/errata-and-faq/
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