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Subject: Schnapsen accessories? rss

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Craig Duncan
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The Wikipedia article for Schnapsen (and 66) has a picture of "accessories" used in playing Schnapsen in Austria:



BGG user Frogan also contributed this image, which contains one of the devices from above.



How are these accessories used? To keep track of game points? Marriage bonuses? Both?

Just curious!
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Ron
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Yes!

The little barrels are taken when one calls a marriage (you take the respective barrel).

The green and red pearls are used to keep score.

Great memories you show here! In my youth, every pub had these accessories for its patrons. The landlord offered them and playing cards for free. It was custom that you play for a drink (i.e., the loser had to pay one round).
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Craig Duncan
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Thanks for the reply. Very intersting.

A follow up question: How do you keep score with the red and green "pearls"? That is unlike any other scoring device I have seen!
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Ron
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The big ones count the "Bummerl" - that's when you win a game (7 points or more).

The smaller ones count the points you score after each game (until you score a "Bummerl").
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Craig Duncan
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Thanks again, but I am still not sure how those things keep track of points and Bummerls. Are there numbers printed on the wood? And if so, so the tines bend to move up and down the number scale.

On another matter: Is there a typically Bummerl number one must reach to win a match? E.g. first to three Bummerls wins?
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Ron
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cdunc123 wrote:
Thanks again, but I am still not sure how those things keep track of points and Bummerls. Are there numbers printed on the wood? And if so, so the tines bend to move up and down the number scale.

I hope I can desribe this in English so that it is understandable: you simply take a small pearl of your color for each point you made and move it to your side. Once you have won a game (i.e., you have seven or more points), you put all the small ones back and move a big one to your side.

cdunc123 wrote:
On another matter: Is there a typically Bummerl number one must reach to win a match? E.g. first to three Bummerls wins?

Usually, a game ends with a Bummerl. A drink is paid and served, and another game can begin. There is no minimum or maximum. At least not where my father used to play. I can imagine that different regions use different rules on that matter. To keep score of how many Bummerl you manage to win this evening (using the big pearls) is only necessary if you play for money (e.g., an Euro per Bummerl) and want to pay out at the end of the evening.
Or you just want to know how many drinks you had this evening before going home and explain to the wife, why you walk zig-zag meeple
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Craig Duncan
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Thanks Ron - I finally get it (and I feel a bit foolish for taking so long to understand!). You did a very good job describing it in English! (I'd probably say "beads" rather than "pearls" though). The Wikipedia picture was so low-resolution that I hadn't even noticed that there were beads. I thought the red and green parts were handles with wiry parts protruding!

It is interesting to me that one keeps track of marriage bonus with the barrels. I guess this is because such bonuses -- unlike the points taken in tricks -- can't be verified by counting the cards in each player's win pile at the end of the hand.

Those of us without the nifty barrel markers could simply jot down the marriage bonues on a score sheet as they happen. Or here is another idea: if you have shortened down a regular pack of 52 cards in order to play Schnapsen, just set the four 2s to the side face up on the table. If you score a marriage bonus, just take the 2 of the same suit and throw it in your win pile. That way when counting at the end you will have a record of the marriage score. In essence, the 2s play the role of the barrels.
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Martin Tompa
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cdunc123 wrote:
Or here is another idea: if you have shortened down a regular pack of 52 cards in order to play Schnapsen, just set the four 2s to the side face up on the table. If you score a marriage bonus, just take the 2 of the same suit and throw it in your win pile. That way when counting at the end you will have a record of the marriage score. In essence, the 2s play the role of the barrels.

Traditionally, some players take all the 7s and 8s from a deck (even the standard Doppeldeutsche cards have 7s and 8s, though not 2s) and use them. They use the 8s to record marriages exactly as you describe. They use the 7s for scoring game points. Each player has two 7s, one face up and the other face down: you use the face down one to expose the number of pips on the face-up 7 corresponding to your current number of game points. You win when all the pips are covered up, corresponding to a game point score of 0. (Traditionally, game points are counted from 7 down to 0.)
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Craig Duncan
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Fantastically clever! Thanks for reporting this, Martin!
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Ron
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Here's a better image:
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Craig Duncan
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Much better -- thanks!!
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Styles Macrae
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Where can one find those Scnapsen accessories? Can they be ordered online?
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Ron
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The image above is from Piatnik: - they seem to have it in stock:

http://www.piatnik.com/produkte/index.php/45/at/de/spielekar...ör

Edit: Just click on "Zubehör" on the left frame
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Tim Koppang
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Out of curiosity, wouldn't the barrels go against the idea that players need to keep track of their points mentally, without any notes? At least if you were using the extra 8s to keep track of marriages, you could place them face-down in your pile of tricks.

Interesting topic!
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Martin Tompa
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tckoppang wrote:
Out of curiosity, wouldn't the barrels go against the idea that players need to keep track of their points mentally, without any notes? At least if you were using the extra 8s to keep track of marriages, you could place them face-down in your pile of tricks.


That's a good question. For unknown (to me) reasons of tradition, you have to keep track of trick points mentally, but not your game points or your marriages. It's really only your opponent's trick points you have to track, because you're allowed to look back at your own tricks at any time and add up the points. Even when you use the 8s to track marriages, they're traditionally left face-up on the table for everyone to see.

If you look closely at the middle picture at http://psellos.com/schnapsen/blog/2012/11/tournament.html, you can see these illustrated in a tournament I played in Vienna last year. You may have to zoom in to see the details. One of the players is looking back at his own tricks, cards in one hand and tricks in the other. Those face-up cards on the table are actually the 9s rather than 8s, and used to keep track of marriages. To make them easier to pick up, the players actually bend them backwards into little tents, as you can see. I cringed when I first saw the cards being mutilated, but I guess to Schnapsen players any card below the 10 is trash!

In my opinion, the game is still fun and very challenging if the trick points of both players are displayed rather than having to remember them. Many computer versions (where you're playing against the computer) display both players' trick points.
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Tim Koppang
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Interesting. Thanks for the details, and the link to the photos. If I'm not mistaken, the ability to look back at your own tricks is unique to Schnapsen, not Sechsundsechzig, right? I typically play the latter, and so the idea of looking back at any tricks is a bit odd to me. That said, if the barrels are meant for use with Schnapsen, and players are allowed to look at their own tricks anyway, I see no reason why keeping track of marriage would be much of a departure from the spirit of the game.
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Martin Tompa
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tckoppang wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the ability to look back at your own tricks is unique to Schnapsen, not Sechsundsechzig, right? I typically play the latter, and so the idea of looking back at any tricks is a bit odd to me.


I'm a Schnapsen expert but not a 66 expert, so I'm not positive of the answer to your question. The Pagat rules for 66 support your position that you are not allowed to look back at any tricks in 66: read near the end of the "First Phase" paragraphs at http://www.pagat.com/marriage/66.html#play.

The same is true in "sharp" Schnapsen (played only in the most serious tournaments): you are not allowed to look back at your own tricks. (See the first bullet under http://www.pagat.com/marriage/schnaps.html#variants.) But in "soft" Schnapsen (played most commonly, even in minor tournaments), you are allowed to look back at your own tricks at any time. (See the second paragraph under "The Play" at http://www.pagat.com/marriage/schnaps.html#play.)
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Martin Tompa
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PzVIE wrote:
Here's a better image:


Ron (or anyone else who knows the answer), the following question just came up about this particular Bummerl counter: why does it have 4 colors and 8 rows of beads, rather than 2 colors and 4 rows of beads? Is it intended for a 4-person game such as Bauernschnapsen (which I don't know)? If you use it in Schnapsen, would you use only 2 of the colors?

Martin.
 
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Ron
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I guess it's just for two games on one table.

Bauernschnapsen is a team game where the two players opposite to each other play together, therefore only two counters would be needed.
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Martin Tompa
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Thanks, Ron!
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Craig Blumer
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Made simple scoring accessories for my Schnapsen kit -- using label paper for the chips, I used an image from Piatnik deck and Scrabble tiles to indicate marriages.

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