Purple Paladin

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Never played this before; got it; reading the rules now. Going to be teaching and playing with up to 8 people. These people will play at different times; different combinations of players; different quests.

Can you keep a "record" of each charcter for a player seperately (instead of the entire group only)? His XP; abilities he bought; equipment he purchased; quests he's completed, then still have him join in with different players/groups over time?

Or will that imbalence the game too much?

On a side note: Can you have more than one character take the same Archtype in a quest (two Warriors for example)?


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Christopher Scatliff
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Purple Paladin wrote:
On a side note: Can you have more than one character take the same Archtype in a quest (two Warriors for example)?

Absolutely.
 
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Kelly Overholser
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The campaign would probably be pretty difficult to play if you've got a rotating group of heroes. You can have a rotating group of players and not do too bad though, if it's only the same four heroes.

If you want to try anyway though, I would say that every hero gets the same amount of exp even if they're not actually in a given quest. Skill purchasing works the same as normal in that case.

Items would be a bit more difficult to balance, but if you keep the same items for the group as a whole instead of for each individual character, it should work out fine. You may not want to let them sell too many of their starter items though, since that could be a pretty big chunk of gold.

The overlord would play as normal, although if you let players keep swapping heroes around, you might want to consider letting the overlord change what cards he's purchased as well.

And yes, you can have multiple characters playing the same archetype. You can't have more than one character of the same class, however; you can have two healer archetypes but not two disciples, for instance. Because there's only two classes for each archetype, that means only two heroes of each archetype (this doesn't matter unless you have the conversion kit, however).
 
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Joshua Harris
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Have you thought of just running multiple instances of the campaign? Each group keeping track of their own place in the conquest?

Don't know if that is an option, but I thought I'd throw it out there as that worked well for me with running Road to Legend with multiple groups.
 
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Purple Paladin

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I appreciate the info.

Well, when we've had some of these 8-12 people over to play games over the years, it's almost never the same people. Ever. I can't imagine getting exactly the same 4 people every time Desent comes out. It's just not going to happen.

That's why I was trying to somehow keep each of their character's experience/quest acheivements seperate so we can play no matter what mix of people shows up.
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Aidyn Newman
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I have the same issue right now and so far it's not too difficult to balance. I have a record of each character's individual abilities and what not, so as long as each player uses the same character each time, everybody can have their own long-term character and class, with no repeats. The game is fairly balanced for having multiple similar archetypes in one game.

Experience is very easy to balance. Since all characters have their own experience pool and don't share experience, it's a simple matter to give characters that aren't present the same amount of experience. Basically, all characters should always have the same amount of experience, all the time.

For gold, there's two ways you can balance it. One way is to take all items the group has found or bought throughout the campaign,along with all unspent gold, and make a "pool" of it at the end of every session. At the beginning of the next session, regardless of who is playing, you allow players to take items from this pool and divvy it up between them. That way if a person obtains Leather Armour but is not present in the next game, somebody else can use that Leather Armour. Keep doing this at the end of every session and you'll have a running log of items the players share. Like a previous commenter mentioned, one imbalancing factor is that you have a lot more starting items that can be sold for cash, but I'm not exactly sure how much of an issue this is seeing as they only sell for 25 gold each IIRC. This is the best option for gold IMO.

The other way to balance gold is to divide it up evenly among the participants, in the same way experience is, and have newcomers walk into the campaign with the same amount of gold as their pals. For example, in a campaign with 3 players, if they collect 150 gold, simply give 50 to each of them. Then next session if a new player comes into the campaign, he'll come in with 50 gold. Simple. There are two problems with this approach, though. One is that the cheapest items in the game are around 75 gold, so players won't be able to purchase anything for a while, and pooling gold together is less of an option. The other problem is what to do with "leftover" gold, like, say there's 175 gold in a 3 player game.
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What if, at the end of each session, everyone recorded...

1. Their XP, hero, and class
2. The group's total gold value as if they'd never bought or sold any items
3. The Overlord's XP

Then at the start of each gaming session...

1. Each player spends their XP on cards, potentially making different choices than they had previously.

2. Take the average of each person's gold value, rounding down to the nearest 25; this is how much gold the group has available to purchase items with. Items may not be sold.

3. The Overlord's XP is the average of that value noted for each player, rounded down. He may spend the XP as normal, potentially making different choices.
 
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Kelly Overholser
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Asmor wrote:
What if, at the end of each session, everyone recorded...

1. Their XP, hero, and class
2. The group's total gold value as if they'd never bought or sold any items
3. The Overlord's XP

Then at the start of each gaming session...

1. Each player spends their XP on cards, potentially making different choices than they had previously.

2. Take the average of each person's gold value, rounding down to the nearest 25; this is how much gold the group has available to purchase items with. Items may not be sold.

3. The Overlord's XP is the average of that value noted for each player, rounded down. He may spend the XP as normal, potentially making different choices.


I don't think that would work particularly well, since that might mean some heroes are incredibly powerful at the same time other heroes are still weak. It would also be hard to balance whether you should use Act 2 monsters/items or not, if each character is at a different power level. Also, for the overlord XP, it's important to note that the overlord is generally balanced around getting more XP than the heroes (several quests give extra overlord XP if you succeed, but give the heroes something else - usually gold - if they win).

I think having a rotating set of items that anyone can "claim" and aren't attached to a character, and just tally up hero and overlord XP and let them buy whatever they want at the start of the game for skills, would be the best way to work a campaign if everyone wants to play a different hero. I still think that sticking to one group of heroes and letting the players rotate who plays which one would be the easiest, however.
 
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Asmor wrote:
What if, at the end of each session, everyone recorded...

1. Their XP, hero, and class
2. The group's total gold value as if they'd never bought or sold any items
3. The Overlord's XP

Then at the start of each gaming session...

1. Each player spends their XP on cards, potentially making different choices than they had previously.

2. Take the average of each person's gold value, rounding down to the nearest 25; this is how much gold the group has available to purchase items with. Items may not be sold.

3. The Overlord's XP is the average of that value noted for each player, rounded down. He may spend the XP as normal, potentially making different choices.


Gold isn't individual anyway, it's all pooled as party loot, just like Road to Legend. Otherwise, I think this is a perfectly reasonable way to do it.

The only thing I'd make note of, is that if somebody buys a level one power after 1 XP. Then, when they have 2 XP, they shouldn't be able to buy a level two power. They've already committed to using one point for a level one power. The value of the level two and three powers has built into it the assumption that you went powerless for a while in order to acquire it.
 
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Yet another way to do it is to pretend the player played the quests he did not attend and gain (or not gain!) the same rewards as the party did. Frex, the player missed the Fat Goblin quest, which the heroes won. The player receives 1 XP plus 25 gold, which are the hero rewards if they succeeded with the Fat Goblin quest. (We'll can assume that the player did do a search, but consumed the search item during play.)

If you end up with a completely new bunch of players, you can run multiple campaigns. With the above system, a particular player should run a different hero in each campaign. Since most Quests have open monsters, if a player plays the same quest a second time, it won't be completely redundant, since you can try out a new group of monsters.
 
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Håvard Sommerseth
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Sethala wrote:

I think having a rotating set of items that anyone can "claim" and aren't attached to a character, and just tally up hero and overlord XP and let them buy whatever they want at the start of the game for skills, would be the best way to work a campaign if everyone wants to play a different hero. I still think that sticking to one group of heroes and letting the players rotate who plays which one would be the easiest, however.


I think this is the best solution. Or you could convert all the items in the pool to gold (buy price, not sell price) and switch to some other gear better suited for the classes that are going to play
 
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Sam and Max wrote:
Yet another way to do it is to pretend the player played the quests he did not attend and gain (or not gain!) the same rewards as the party did. Frex, the player missed the Fat Goblin quest, which the heroes won. The player receives 1 XP plus 25 gold, which are the hero rewards if they succeeded with the Fat Goblin quest. (We'll can assume that the player did do a search, but consumed the search item during play.)

Isn't that what he said? If not, I misread it. My vision of it was that your quest log does not list actual powers or items at all, it lists XP and party gold (remember, gold isn't tracked individually, it's shared). And then you can spend it anew each session. Kind of like an escalating Epic Mode ruleset.

This does give the hero a bit of an advantage, though, remember. Because they can use a level 1 power after the first quest, but then decide on the second quest to use their now-two XP to buy a level 2 power. Whereas by tracking the individual purchases, if they wanted that level 2 power they would have had to go with no power at all for the first quest. Same applies to money. Under this system they can "temporarily" use a 100-gp item while they're saving for a 200-gp item. Normally not possible.

Another thing: this only works if you keep the number of heroes constant. Because the available party gold comes from search tokens, which is scaled by party size.
 
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Smoo wrote:
The only thing I'd make note of, is that if somebody buys a level one power after 1 XP. Then, when they have 2 XP, they shouldn't be able to buy a level two power. They've already committed to using one point for a level one power. The value of the level two and three powers has built into it the assumption that you went powerless for a while in order to acquire it.


I haven't looked at the powers (only played once so far, as overlord), but I sincerely hope that is not the case. If that's true, then there are two options: save up and buy better later, or spend it as you get it.

Either way, one of those two tactics will end up balanced, and the other will be underpowered at one point and overpowered at another.

The idea that you should trade early hardship for later power is definitely an old school one, and arguably might even make sense in certain RPGs (I'd disagree), but I really hope it's not a part of this board game.
 
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Asmor wrote:
The idea that you should trade early hardship for later power is definitely an old school one, and arguably might even make sense in certain RPGs (I'd disagree), but I really hope it's not a part of this board game.

What? Of course it's part of this board game. You do know that this discussion is about a possible house rule, right? The actual rules are as I described: if you want a 2-level power, you have to forego buying a 1-level power for an encounter. That's right in the rulebook.

So what exactly are you talking about?
 
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Well, first, I assume that later adventures in the campaign will provide more than a single experience point, meaning no, you wouldn't have to forgo buying anything.

Second, I didn't read much about the specifics, but in skimming the rulebook I saw that there are non-campaign variants printed in there which entail each player starting with some number of experience points to spend as they wish. That would imply that a point's a point no matter how long you wait to spend it, and a two-point card's not intended to be any more special or scarce than a pair of one-point cards.
 
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Asmor wrote:
Second, I didn't read much about the specifics, but in skimming the rulebook I saw that there are non-campaign variants printed in there which entail each player starting with some number of experience points to spend as they wish. That would imply that a point's a point no matter how long you wait to spend it, and a two-point card's not intended to be any more special or scarce than a pair of one-point cards.

Sure, but that's not what we're talking about. This is about a house rule for being able to dynamically change characters in the middle of a campaign.

According to the rules, where you're using a single hero, you spend an XP and it stays spent. So if your hero wanted to use a level-2 power in the third quest, he'd have to not buy a power before the second quest. Right? Still with me? So, under this new proposal, a hero could buy a level-1 power before the second quest, and then re-tool to discard the level-1 power in exchange for a level-2 power before the third quest, an advantage unavailable to the standard campaign.

Do you see what I'm saying?
 
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Smoo wrote:
Asmor wrote:
Second, I didn't read much about the specifics, but in skimming the rulebook I saw that there are non-campaign variants printed in there which entail each player starting with some number of experience points to spend as they wish. That would imply that a point's a point no matter how long you wait to spend it, and a two-point card's not intended to be any more special or scarce than a pair of one-point cards.

Sure, but that's not what we're talking about. This is about a house rule for being able to dynamically change characters in the middle of a campaign.

According to the rules, where you're using a single hero, you spend an XP and it stays spent. So if your hero wanted to use a level-2 power in the third quest, he'd have to not buy a power before the second quest. Right? Still with me? So, under this new proposal, a hero could buy a level-1 power before the second quest, and then re-tool to discard the level-1 power in exchange for a level-2 power before the third quest, an advantage unavailable to the standard campaign.

Do you see what I'm saying?


Personally I don't think it's that huge of a drawback to have to skip getting a skill to get a later one. I probably wouldn't save up for a 3-cost skill as my first purchase in a campaign (and I'd probably also avoid the 3-cost skills in a single Advanced-level game, as that would be my only non-starter skill), but I don't think saving up for a higher one instead of buying all your single-XP skills first is a bad idea.

I would say though, that if you let the heroes change their skills between sessions, the overlord should be able to change his purchased cards as well.

By the way, if anyone's wondering about XP gain, every quest gives a base 1 XP to both sides, so a total of at least 8 XP by the end. The only way to get more XP than that is by winning quests, and not all quests give XP as a reward. It's possible for the overlord to get 8 extra XP from quests in total (two of the Act 1 quests give one XP to the overlord if he wins, and several Act 2 quests give two XP to the overlord if he wins), but the heroes can only get 3 extra XP (none of the Act 1 quests and only a few Act 2 quests give extra XP to the heroes, and those are only 1 each; most quests give a relic or gold to the heroes).

Back to the topic, don't forget that there's only a limited number of 1-XP skills. Each hero gets three skills for 1 XP, three for 2, and two for 3.
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Purple Paladin

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Guys, before you discuss more, am I mistaken? Don't your have to have 2 level 1 abilities before you can get a 2 point ability, and so on?
 
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Purple Paladin wrote:
Guys, before you discuss more, am I mistaken? Don't your have to have 2 level 1 abilities before you can get a 2 point ability, and so on?

That applies to the overlord, not to the heroes.
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Purple Paladin

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Made "Character Sheets" to keep info on characters separately. But it won't let me put "Word" or PDF files in here to show you guys for some reason.
 
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Smoo wrote:
Purple Paladin wrote:
Guys, before you discuss more, am I mistaken? Don't your have to have 2 level 1 abilities before you can get a 2 point ability, and so on?

That applies to the overlord, not to the heroes.


And that's per class for the OL as well...
 
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Purple Paladin

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I made this to keep track of each players characters reguardless of who they play with each time:

 
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