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Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles» Forums » Rules

Subject: Simultaneous movement rss

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Guatemala
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Is there a way to move friendly units simultaneously, as a stack? Either inf-inf or inf-tank, consuming 2 Operations Range in the process?
If not, which is what I think, what is the design intention?

Thanks,
 
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Michael Evans
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There isn't a way to do that in the rules as written.
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p55carroll
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PrimalAce wrote:
There isn't a way to do that in the rules as written.

But to change the topic, you can do that in the World at War Series (and it doesn't even cost anything extra to do it).
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Ilias Sellountos
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Other than giving the opponent a chance to shoot both units at once why would you want to do that? I generally avoid having two units in the same hex at any time, if possible.
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Darin Helgeson
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If you want to use 2 operations points, you can move two units from the same hex to the same hex which would have the same effect as moving them simultaneously. I can think of no advantage to possibly be gained by actually moving them together. I also try to never stack units if there is a potential to receive fire from enemy units.
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Guatemala
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I know that within the rules it would be wrong to move two units together since they could receive fire together. It's only that (I think) units moved together in real war situations. Maybe not in a tight formation, but together. Infantry moved together with armor when attacking, or not? In short, moving one and then the other to get to the same place in a two minute turn seems a bit gamey to me if you do it for EVERY unit.
Maybe if there was some kind of limit on the number of activations that could take place in a turn, that would encourage both sides to move units together when the time is running short. Something like a fixed number of activations + random factor per turn for fog of war/uncertainty. There could be a little bonus on operations range if you move units together (2 for the price of 1.5 so you move two stacks for 3 operations range points) so you decide how you trade safety for agility...decisions.
Just thinking out loud here over a game system that gives so much.
 
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Martí Cabré

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In reality, all the units from both sides moved at the same time.
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Ilias Sellountos
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marticabre wrote:
In reality, all the units from both sides moved at the same time.


Exactly. And in comparison in almost every tabletop wargame ever designed units take turns moving. Thinking in terms of 'but in the real war things happened a different way' will not get you far. All rules systems can be gamey. They are games after all.
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Guatemala
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True. That's why every designer decides to pay more attention to different aspects, chosing carefully the degree of abstraction/detail for each "action" or "procedure".
What I was saying is a ruling that many other tactical wargames at the same level of complexity include (I can think of LnL and CoH right now), and I was just wondering what could be the reason for not including it in BoB too.

Quote:
Thinking in terms of 'but in the real war things happened a different way' will not get you far.
Well, that's exactly the reason why Jim has designed a game engine that is so different from many other tactical games, in order to make players think and make decisions based on what really happened in a battlefield. And that's what I like about BoB.
 
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Ilias Sellountos
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inefable urlik wrote:
Well, that's exactly the reason why Jim has designed a game engine that is so different from many other tactical games, in order to make players think and make decisions based on what really happened in a battlefield. And that's what I like about BoB.


That would only be true if an actual battlefield commander had not only absolute knowledge of the position and condition of every single one of his units and most of his enemies at all times and absolute control of every unit's actions, but also all the time in the world to think about what each unit should do and the luxury of sacrifising units to meet arbitrary win conditions.

Wargames are a theoretical exercise of war very far removed from the realities of it. For example in Scenario 2, the americans would never have a 'win' condition of 'eliminate all german units in X turns' which leads to a number of frontal assaults. The last time I won that scenario was by sacrifising reduced or supressed units to soak up defensive fire, before moving in with the real assault units. Do not confuse the theory as having anything to do with "what really happened in a battlefield".
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Samuel Hinz
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helge52 wrote:
If you want to use 2 operations points, you can move two units from the same hex to the same hex which would have the same effect as moving them simultaneously. I can think of no advantage to possibly be gained by actually moving them together. I also try to never stack units if there is a potential to receive fire from enemy units.


I can think of one benefit.

If you move separetely but into the same hex. then the first unit has the potential to be eliminated twice. once when it moves in and the second when the other unit moves in, Seeing as damage is allocated per hex.

If you move both unit at once, you've only one opportunity to eliminate the units.

It might work out better if your being fired on by 1 unit only. any more than that and it might be a bigger risk.
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Jim Krohn
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Interesting thread...

The way I designed the game, I view all units moving within a player's operations range as moving at roughly the same time.

As has been pointed out, it is rarely wise to stack units. In my view, games that often have stacked squads at this scale are highly unrealistic. So, my first thought would not be to have stacks moving at the same time, it would be to have multiple units moving at the same time (on the board). This would have required many special rules. Given that I already consider them to be acting roughly at the same time if within a player's operations range, it is just much easier/there are much fewer rules to resolve the actions the way the game does now.
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Guatemala
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Thank you very much for your explanation, Jim.
 
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Quote:
If you move both unit at once, you've only one opportunity to eliminate the units.


That makes a lot of sense! Thank you!
 
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Ilias Sellountos
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inefable urlik wrote:
Quote:
If you move both unit at once, you've only one opportunity to eliminate the units.


That makes a lot of sense! Thank you!


Actually, this is false as each opposing unit can only op fire once. When two units start in the same hex and wish to end their movement in the same hex:

- Units moving separately: The only way for all available enemy units to fire at both units together is at the last hex of the movement (where only the second unit would suffer from movement bonuces against it and is more often than not a hex with cover, whereas hexes in the middle of the move are often open); every other potential fire has to target either the first unit or the second one.

- Units moving together: Every single enemy unti that can fire, fires on both units at the same time.

The only possible exception is if part of the move happens within the final op fire range (effectively adjacent) to a defender without the intent to move into the defender's hex (making fire from both that defender impossible and preventing any other enemy units from firing into that hex as well), something that generally is by itself not only very rare, but also strongly ill-advised.
 
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