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War of the Ring Collector's Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Four player seige engine mustering rss

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Tony Wilson
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Actually had a three player game today, but my question relates to the Shadow players who operate under the normal four player restrictions anyway.

A mixed army (Orcs and Haradrim), controlled by the Saruman player is besieging Minas Tirith.
It is now the Sauron players turn, can he muster a siege engine at Minas Tirith?

In fact even if it were not a mixed army, but a completely Saruman force, could Sauron still muster a siege engine?

The requirement under the siege engines is:
"The Shadow player may use a Muster Action Die result to
place a Siege Tower in a region containing a Shadow Army
besieging a Stronghold controlled by the Free Peoples
player."
No comment relating to the four player game.

Under the four player restrictions:
"Only the controlling player may use actions to move
or attack with the mixed Army."
(My emphasis)

Now it's very clear that I cannot muster army units of the other player, (which of course appear in "his" country). But the siege engines do not "belong" to either player, and by definition are placed in F.P. territory. (Disregarding the small possibility of an attempt to retake a SP stronghold captured earlier).

As time was pressing we allowed it in our game,and it so happened that there was no actual effect as things played out.

I can find no mention in any of the FAQ, but we felt it was perhaps an oversight as the four player game seems to get less play.

Any thoughts welcome.
 
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Philip Mairs
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I think you could allow if the player has a unit in the mixed army.
 
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Kevin Chapman
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Axis & Allies Developer and Playtester; War of the Ring Editor and Playtester
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The letter of the rules would seem to indicate that the Sauron player can place a siege engine with a pure Isengard Army. However, this seems to violate the spirit of the multiplayer rules, given that recruitment Event cards are segregated by player.

Mixed Armies are another matter. One one hand, one Shadow player or the other must control any given mixed Army, keeping the players from sharing Armies and using them on each others' turns. On the other hand, I see no reason why either faction couldn't build siege engines in any Army containing its units, as it could recruit there using an appropriate Event card. It really depends upon how far the concept of Army control is intended to reach regarding siege engines.

I guess we need an official ruling on this. Roberto?
 
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Philip Sokolov
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I definitely wonder this, especially with respect to the card, Deep Trenches and Great Engines, which states: “Recruit up to two Shadow Siege Engines, or eliminate up to two Free Peoples Siege Engines, in one or two regions with a Shadow Army besieging a Stronghold controlled by the Free Peoples.” Page 66 of the rulebook states that “Each player only controls certain Nations and can only use his Action Dice and Event Cards to recruit, move, or fight with Armies of these Nations.” If that rule applies to this card, it makes it FAR less powerful in a 4-player game than it would be in a 2-player game. But that is also already true of cards like The Shadow is Moving (“Move up to four different Shadow Armies up to one region each”), where you can only move your armies.
 
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Philip Sokolov
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Still wondering about this.
 
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