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Thunderbolt Apache Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: Reusing Ordnance rss

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Nevin Longardner
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If I complete a mission with unused ordnance, does it stay on the plane or do I have to repurchase it for a future mission? The rulebook is clear on not getting SOs refunded for unused weapons, but I couldn't find anything about reusing unused weapons.
 
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Apex
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Any unused ordnance stays on the Aircraft barring restrictions from Pylon damage, etc.
 
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Ryan
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medlinke wrote:
Any unused ordnance stays on the Aircraft barring restrictions from Pylon damage, etc.


Keith, where did you find that information? I can't find it anywhere in the rule book. To be fair, I can't find any information in the rulebook that clarifies this question one way or another.

I believe any unused ordnance is removed from an aircraft after each mission. Any SO Points spent on unused weapon counters are lost. That is the way this situation is resolved in Hornet Leader: Carrier Air Operations and I believe the same rule would apply here. I realize that is not a valid argument for supporting my point of view as many rules are different between the two games, but I'm running with it!
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Christopher Schall
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Yes, you lose unused ordnance and must repurchase. This is per Dan in a reply over on CSW.

edits for spelling.
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Apex
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I stand corrected again. Logic should not be applied it seems...

Why in the world would an aircraft that has not expended ordnance require the purchase of said ordnance on a subsequent day? The argument that it had to be dismounted, checked, and re-mounted seems suspect given that there is other ordnance that's free!
 
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Nevin Longardner
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Airborne wrote:
Yes, you lose unused ordnance and must repurchase. This is per Dan in a reply over on CSW.


Thanks for looking into that for us.

Nevo
 
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Mike Hartman
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I noticed last night when I visited the publisher's site that they had added an 'optional' rule that allows you to recover unused ordnance SO's.
 
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Ryan
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medlinke wrote:
I stand corrected again. Logic should not be applied it seems...

Why in the world would an aircraft that has not expended ordnance require the purchase of said ordnance on a subsequent day? The argument that it had to be dismounted, checked, and re-mounted seems suspect given that there is other ordnance that's free!


Since we're playing make believe here, I'll chime in as well. I'll make the case that SO points may also partially represent the "political capital" your squadron commander/squadron/airbase have. You can only ask for so much before your supervisors/theater commanders may tell you to tough it out and make the best with what you have. After all, there are probably other aircraft on our imaginary base that need a variety of support in addition to what our aircraft need. If I ask for the best and expensive ordnance every turn "just in case" and I don't use it, my supervisor is likely to give the weapons purchased with my SO to someone who will actually use it to kill an enemy. I may use SO to purchase something, but Uncle Sam still owns the bomb, so to speak.

Just another way I look at it in addition to Kevin's reason above.
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Andrew Walters
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Two other thoughts on why you need to "re-buy" the same missile:

From my reading, pilots don't seem to spare the missiles just because they cost half a million dollars. From Viet Nam to Afghanistan, it seems if they have a shot, they take it. $60,000 to take out a single insurgent seems like a lot of money, but both the US and British pilots do it. If you could re-use ordnance most of us gamers would seriously think about saving weapons; if things aren't going well after the first turn you might ponder whether saving the SO is better than taking the long shot that you can damage or destroy the battalion you're working on. If things are going well you might ask yourself if can finish off the target with cannon and dumb bombs and save those Mavericks for tomorrow. Since this rule would make the player base his decisions on very different criteria than the history the game is trying to simulate, it's a bad rule. I'd rather simulate the experience and thinking than the budget.

Second reason: game balance. Try a game where you can carry over ordnance, you'll see it's easier. You could try to fix this by giving yourself 2/3/5 fewer SO or some other quantities, but that would make SO dearer and thus accentuate the first problem.

I like all the previously mentioned reasons as well.

Bottom line, it's a solitaire game, it's you having fun, play it as you like. At the same time, it's supposed to be a challenge, I don't think we want to take the edge off the rules...
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Ryan
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andreww wrote:
From my reading, pilots don't seem to spare the missiles just because they cost half a million dollars. From Viet Nam to Afghanistan, it seems if they have a shot, they take it. $60,000 to take out a single insurgent seems like a lot of money, but both the US and British pilots do it.


Agreed.

When it comes down to it being your ass or the other guy's ass, $60,000 seems like a pretty cheap ticket home.
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