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Subject: AOT 4K Side Narrative rss

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Nicholas Gauthier
United States
Monticello
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I've played through the C&C scenarios, and thought I'd look at the AOT scenarios to see if you could set them up and play them with C&C rules. I've researched the Fourth Kawanakajima on the internet and watched two samurai films about it: Samurai Banners (1969)and Heaven and Earth (1991), since so many of the C&C scenarios cover it in its different phases.

Looking at the narrative for AOT's 4K, it seems that the sides are reversed for at least part of the battle description. It won't play any differently, but its rather odd. (This is complicated by the fact that AOT uses the reverse colors from C&C for both sides).

Some examples:

1. "Takeda...made camp on the west bank of the Chikumugawa River." But its the Uesugi froces shown starting there.

2. "Uesugi...maneuvered his cavalry to counterattack." But its Takeda who has all four cavalry units. Uesugi should have the cavalry, since its his cavalry which penetrates to the Takeda HQ in the famous incident where the two daimyos exchanged personal blows.

I'm no expert on Japanese history, but this happens to be the one battle I've been spending time on reviewing lately. Is the narrative incorrect? Should the armies be reversed on the set up map?
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Francisco E
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True, I'm curious about that too.. we play these games partly due to a historical interest so it would be nice to have an errata correctly identifying these things..

Also some of the scenarios don't actually have the forces identified..

I'm also curious about the Nagashino scenario... I found it curious that the allied army only has two teppo units and all the way to the back ... The battle was famous for the use of the teppos on the stockade fighting off the cav.. I understand that there are abstactions involved when doing the scenario but if the author checks these posts I would love to understand the concepts behind his representation of the battle..

I love this game, can't wait to play it more.. it would be great maybe to have some basic scenario system for pick up games,

Francisco
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Bill Wallace
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Michigan
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It has become sadly clear that no one actually did any meaningful proofing on this game, at least in the English version.

And the company is invisible in reaction.

Richard B cleared up some bad errata on the C&C scenarios--bad because it seemed more than half of them had a glitch that meant you couldn't play it with what came in the box. (no, not just the cavalry--they botched unit types in a couple other ways too.) he promised PDFs to fix the problems and a couple more scenarios, but that was a month ago...

I haven't looked hard at AoT but did take a look long enough to spot the cavalry problem and several other. To repeat, no proofing or editing done and no follow up to make things right.

Maybe they could skate on this with AoT,but when they included C&C, they picked up a bunch of customers with expectations of service and response like GMT and FFG. They need to fix the errors, reprint the rules and scenarios, and give copies to all purchasers at no cost. Expensive? Yeah. It's always cheaper to get it right the first time.

They had better get an English speaking rep to get really aggressive at fixing these problems. If they stay silent, this will be my last Zvezda game.
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Kevin Duke
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Wynne
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Well, I must admit, this is a concern.

Yesterday I finally managed to get a couple games in and I think the C&C system is extremely good. (Like I felt when starting CCNap after years of CCAncients, I was surprised at how DIFFERENT the game is- and that's a good thing.)

The box is an odd mix. Some things are really nice-- the terrain hexes are top notch, for example (altho the color of 'river' is pretty unappetizing!). The cards are pretty low-grade in terms of art/graphics and any time people instantly say, "I have to sleeve these" you know the physical quality is low. The map board is a nice grade. Having six loose pieces is a pain. The player aid cards are normal weight paper (sheet protectors!). The rulebooks are B- grade in graphic quality, but the errors...oh my!

But all those things would just be an interesting mix if we got "support."

I appreciate Richard's post. The complete "zero" we have from anyone from Zvezda is unnerving. Bill mentions GMT and FFG. But those are both US companies. Maybe a better example is Nexus/Ares- an Italian company that has supported their games very well, in terms of forum responsiveness and making-it-right when there are errors.

I suspect Zvezda is used to making figures-- which require very little 'support' if they are well done (and these certainly are). If they want to be in the game business, I think they'd better expand the staff.
 
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Bartosz Popow
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Gdynia
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Zvezda responded to my concerns about rules. They don't check BGG on the daily basis, but drop them an e-mail with a link to a topic and they should react then.
office@zvezda.org.ru
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Francisco E
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Yes maybe the support has been a bit slow so far but the games are so good that I'm really hoping they can pick it up.. the game really deserves it..

Corrections on the scenario write ups would be great because the historical aspect is a big part of the game.

we'll see.. for the time being I'll email them about my questions as per the recommendation...

All these issues aside the games are really wonderful and I would certainly buy it again in a second.. and I plan to get any expansions they might release...

cheers
Francisco
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David Millette
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Henderson
Nevada
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seldonH wrote:
Yes maybe the support has been a bit slow so far but the games are so good that I'm really hoping they can pick it up.. the game really deserves it..

Corrections on the scenario write ups would be great because the historical aspect is a big part of the game.

we'll see.. for the time being I'll email them about my questions as per the recommendation...

cheers
Francisco


Zvezda support has been nonexistent. I said it before but this really has surprised me. They could have hit this one out of the park. It's nice that Richard is the one making corrections on his side of the game but that's not the way it should work. Please let us know if you get a response as I think we're concerned. I don't plan on trying AOT until I see a customer service presence established from zvezda.
 
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