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Subject: Navegador - a couple of questions to those who've played it rss

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Jake Fernandez
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Hi everyone,

I'm trying to get a feel for this game. Reviews have been generally positive, but I'm trying to get a feel of the game beyond its components and mechanics.

What is the general feel of the game?
Is it scarcity of actions? Is it anxiety over being screwed over? Is it a puzzle in your mind that needs to be solved?

Which game does this remind you most of?
Mechanics do not need to be similar, just the general feel of the game.

What is the table banter like (or lack thereof)?
Do you feel like this was an atmosphere created by the game or just normal in your game group?

What are the central decisions in the game like?
Are you constantly watching out for your opponents or doing your own thing? What are your main concerns in this game?

Are the rules intuitive? What mechanic/concept is most difficult to explain?
Have you ever had trouble explaining the game? Are the rules disjointed that it is difficult to create an analogy that makes sense? Do you feel that there plenty of things that you need to remember?

What's the best thing going for this game? What's the worst thing? (You have to pick!)
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David Jones
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What is the general feel of the game?
Closest I can come to your examples is going to be anxiety over timing. If you and another player have the same goal, who is going to get there first? There is also an issue in that you and another player are pushing the price of goods in opposite directions, so you want to time your moves so that you go after that person, but do you have enough cash to continue taking actions before that happens.

Which game does this remind you most of?
Puerto Rico, because both games can be heavily right binding.

What are the central decisions in the game like?
See above.

Are the rules intuitive? What mechanic/concept is most difficult to explain?

Rules are very simple, which is why I think the game is as popular as it is. Its got a good light/medium euro feel to it, but its generally pretty easy to teach. The market tends to be the most difficult feature because, as noted above, prices get pushed in different directions depending on what you sell.

What's the best thing going for this game? What's the worst thing

The best thing about the game is that the rondel limits you to one of three actions each turn, so you tend to not overthink the game. Decisions are simple and AP is low. The worst thing about the game is that, because of the simplicity, I have a hard time getting people who prefer medium to heavy eurogames to play it.
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Andy Leber
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davypi wrote:
What is the general feel of the game?
Closest I can come to your examples is going to be anxiety over timing. If you and another player have the same goal, who is going to get there first? There is also an issue in that you and another player are pushing the price of goods in opposite directions, so you want to time your moves so that you go after that person, but do you have enough cash to continue taking actions before that happens.

Which game does this remind you most of?
Puerto Rico, because both games can be heavily right binding.



Agreed. It's about trying to race to a certain sea region, or racing to an action/role before someone else.

Also some nice tension about choosing which path to victory you want to pursue. There are several different types of points you can try and score, and it's about battling another player for a certain feature, or trying to choose the path that nobody else is (the latter being the most difficult, but best way to succeed).

If you've played Agricola, it's not as frantic of a race as that. I find in Agricola, you feel like you have a VERY limited amount of time/turns to accomplish what you want, and your opponents can really screw up your plans. It's similar, but to a much lesser degree in this game.

For example, if you're planning on going to the market with your gold, your opponent may get there first, and lower the value of your gold, whereas in Agricola, an opponent can pretty much completely take an action away from you.
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Romain Jacques
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dyeyk2000 wrote:
What is the general feel of the game?
Is it scarcity of actions? Is it anxiety over being screwed over? Is it a puzzle in your mind that needs to be solved?

It is more a race between you and the players that have the same goals. Since there are many possible goals, you are in goods shape if only you has choosen a specific goal. However, there is some anxiety to be screwed if other players have the same as you specialy if they are playing just before you.

dyeyk2000 wrote:
Which game does this remind you most of?
Mechanics do not need to be similar, just the general feel of the game.

The mechanic of the rondel makes the game very dynamic. You have one action to choose from three and each one is played fast. So turns are fast and you have the feeling that you are always involved. Imperial, Antike has the same rondel mechanic but they have a military dimension missing in Navegador. So I would say Hamburgum is the game that remind me the most Navegador, but I prefer Navegador by far.

dyeyk2000 wrote:
What is the table banter like (or lack thereof)?
Do you feel like this was an atmosphere created by the game or just normal in your game group?

Navegador is not for everybody, but in general for most players it was a good hit.

dyeyk2000 wrote:
What are the central decisions in the game like?
Are you constantly watching out for your opponents or doing your own thing? What are your main concerns in this game?

Your main concern is to avoid doing what the player before you is doing. So you are constantly watching what (s)he is doing.

dyeyk2000 wrote:
Are the rules intuitive? What mechanic/concept is most difficult to explain?
Have you ever had trouble explaining the game? Are the rules disjointed that it is difficult to create an analogy that makes sense? Do you feel that there plenty of things that you need to remember?

With the exception of the market, the game is very intuitive and easy to explain. So when I am explaining the game, I go around the rondel explaining each possible actions skipping the market to explain it at the end. Saying when I have colonies I produce goods so price goes down (more supply) and when I have manufactures I am buying goods to manufacture them, so price goes up (more demand). I repeat this twice or three times and expect to have to repeat it more times during the game.

dyeyk2000 wrote:
What's the best thing going for this game? What's the worst thing? (You have to pick!)

What I like about the game, it is its pace and the suspense about the winner. At your turn, there are 3 choices to make, so it does not take too long for a player knows what to do. Before you notice, it is your turn again. There are a lot of ways to make points and since you count them at the end you rarely know who will win until the last minute.

The worst is you could be screwed by the player in front of you. For example, if you start buying some kind of colonies and manufactures and later he buys the same ones as yours, every times he will go to the market before you, he will depress the prices for you making your life miserable.
 
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Jon Ben
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Romain wrote:

dyeyk2000 wrote:
Are the rules intuitive? What mechanic/concept is most difficult to explain?
Have you ever had trouble explaining the game? Are the rules disjointed that it is difficult to create an analogy that makes sense? Do you feel that there plenty of things that you need to remember?

With the exception of the market, the game is very intuitive and easy to explain. So when I am explaining the game, I go around the rondel explaining each possible actions skipping the market to explain it at the end. Saying when I have colonies I produce goods so price goes down (more supply) and when I have manufactures I am buying goods to manufacture them, so price goes up (more demand). I repeat this twice or three times and expect to have to repeat it more times during the game.


The direction of sale is easy to remember things always shift to lower prices. That direction is opposite for factories vs. colonies. I find the thing that people get the most confused about is that each type of good can either be harvested from the colonies or processed at the factory, but not both during a single trip to the market.
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Romain Jacques
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JonBen wrote:

The direction of sale is easy to remember things always shift to lower prices. That direction is opposite for factories vs. colonies. I find the thing that people get the most confused about is that each type of good can either be harvested from the colonies or processed at the factory, but not both during a single trip to the market.


Good trick. Never thought about saying "factory" price goes down. Probably because the price markers are always on the "colony" table.
 
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Jake Fernandez
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Thanks everybody for the excellent replies! Seems like this really is a "race" game where it is only good for you if you get to do something first than your opponent. That being the case, how does the game handle flexibility and not being screwed over by turn order? Can you change plans mid-way and still win?

If everybody is doing something else and not getting in anybody's way, does the game lose its tension? In Agricola, you HAVE to get in each others way as everybody has to do a little bit of everything. Also, if I already have Agricola, is there room for this game in my collection?
 
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Andy Holt
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The timing of the use of the Market gives serious possibilities for screwing/avoiding being screwed.
 
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Colin Sham
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That's exactly what a Cylon would say!
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dyeyk2000 wrote:
Thanks everybody for the excellent replies! Seems like this really is a "race" game where it is only good for you if you get to do something first than your opponent. That being the case, how does the game handle flexibility and not being screwed over by turn order? Can you change plans mid-way and still win?

Ultimately this game is about an economic engine. Can you produce cash, and find a way to turn that into VPs. So no, it's not tactical enough to allow for you to change plans entirely mid-way and still win. It means that strategy > tactics, though ignoring tactics will leave you with a weakened strategy.

Turn order is very important. Your strategy has to account for it. You cannot ignore it.

dyeyk2000 wrote:
If everybody is doing something else and not getting in anybody's way, does the game lose its tension? In Agricola, you HAVE to get in each others way as everybody has to do a little bit of everything. Also, if I already have Agricola, is there room for this game in my collection?

You can't ignore the previous turns because they will take choices away from you (and possibly add choices). Each of their turns matter. There is very little about this game that is solitaire.

Agricola is a worker-placement game that allows you to get more actions. This feels like building up an engine that allows you to /do more/. You'll be building 3-5 ships in the end game with an action, whereas you could only build 1 in the first action. Discounting theme and speaking mechanics only, there is definitely room for both.
 
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