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Vampire: The Eternal Struggle» Forums » General

Subject: V:TES LCG rss

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Steven Lee
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What are the chances? I know a lot of hardcore fans would balk at the idea (as evidenced on the forums over at vekn.net), but rebooting the best multiplayer CCG game as an LCG really appeals to me, IF it retained the same basic rule set. FFG would be the obvious candidate, what with their upcoming release of Netrunner.

Thoughts?
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Robert R
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I've been meaning to ask the same thing. I'd be up for it. Unfortunately I got interested in VTES as it was dying, so this would be awesome.
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Sam Marsh
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The issue would be licensing.
Wizards of the Coast designed the game, and own the mechanics of it all.
White Wolf created the background, from their role play so own the theme of it. Each company would probably want some money for this, along with not interfering with things like World of Darkness online.
Also starting a new LCG with all the old card being compatible means that all the old players have a load of cards to play with, while new players can't necessarily compete with that.

All very tricky. I would like to see if come back, but am not sure it will.

Sam
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Steven Lee
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I'd love to see a base set that consists of 4 Camarilla clan starter decks, a set of library cards that players can use to modify their decks once familiar with the game, dice/blood markers, and an edge token.

The expansions could consist of either more clan-specific starter decks or – if that would cause you to end up with too many duplicate library cards – simply 'clan packs' of vampires (say 2 clans per expansion) along with more library cards and suggested decks that you can put together using the cards from the base set and the specific expansion.

Major expansions could introduce new clan types (e.g. 4 Sabbat decks/vampire packs) and any associated rules.



 
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Steven Lee
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Jazzbeaux wrote:
The issue would be licensing.
Wizards of the Coast designed the game, and own the mechanics of it all.
White Wolf created the background, from their role play so own the theme of it. Each company would probably want some money for this, along with not interfering with things like World of Darkness online.
Also starting a new LCG with all the old card being compatible means that all the old players have a load of cards to play with, while new players can't necessarily compete with that.

All very tricky. I would like to see if come back, but am not sure it will.

Sam


Yeah, the licensing would be tricky.

I don't think the LCG angle would work as a compatible system with the CCG. Frankly, I wouldn't want it to be for the very reason you note. I have a good number of old cards, but I'd be willing to start over again for the sake of bringing new players into the game.

I care less about them saving the CCG and more about making it accessible to a wider community.
 
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H W
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As somebody who scoured the web and bought 2 booster boxes in the last year, I'd love for this to happen.

V:TES is a great game.

But it's difficult to see how well it would word as a LCG. Unlike Magic The Gathering, there's more of a personal touch to a Vampire deck. Everybody has their favorite clans, and vampires from their clans, and clan/ability restricted library cards and so on. You get this in Magic, but because there are only 5 main factions (the colours of magic), you get a lot of duplication between decks.

Then there's the matter of which edition to go with - Vampire the Masquerade, or The Requiem?

I guess I've seen bringing order to the chaos as part of the fun. It could work, but it may just seem a little restricted unless it gets a lot of commitment from the publishers.
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Steven Lee
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heathengray wrote:
As somebody who scoured the web and bought 2 booster boxes in the last year, I'd love for this to happen.

V:TES is a great game.

But it's difficult to see how well it would word as a LCG. Unlike Magic The Gathering, there's more of a personal touch to a Vampire deck. Everybody has their favorite clans, and vampires from their clans, and clan/ability restricted library cards and so on. You get this in Magic, but because there are only 5 main factions (the colours of magic), you get a lot of duplication between decks.

Then there's the matter of which edition to go with - Vampire the Masquerade, or The Requiem?

I guess I've seen bringing order to the chaos as part of the fun. It could work, but it may just seem a little restricted unless it gets a lot of commitment from the publishers.


For sure. As we've seen with the AGoT and LoTR cards games (among others), there is a lot of grumbling from the outset about the limited number of cards you get with the base game and the need to buy multiple base games in some cases. I think this frustration mostly comes from CCG fans (particularly those who have already played the game) and those who want to play competitively. But I think that's just the nature of the LCG model. The base game is really just a learning game and an appetizer for the expansions, and if you really want to dig in, you'll need to invest some cash on multiple sets.
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Chris Berger
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What I'd rather see than a reboot of V:TES as an LCG would be a Mage LCG set in the world of darkness with different rules. After all, V:TES already exists and there are plenty of cards available out there (and isn't V:EKN releasing a new set sometime soon?) - it'd be a shame to throw it out and start the same game over again. And if you're going to do something new with it, why not something completely new?

I had some ideas for a Mage CCG back in the day that I never completely fleshed out or did anything with, but it seemed there were a lot of interesting things to explore. (My version centered mostly around locations, similar to Doomtown, where you would send your mages off to collect Quintessence, and mages had a capacity that was the combined amount of Paradox and Quintessence they could hold - more Paradox and you just couldn't hold/collect as much Quintessence, and you could play Paradox cards on either your own mages or others to remove Paradox from them in return for some sort of detriment. There was also some multi-uses for cards, like using Correspondence cards to increase the range of your spells, or to cast them as spells on their own, etc...)
 
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Geoff C
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sleevan wrote:
Jazzbeaux wrote:
Also starting a new LCG with all the old card being compatible means that all the old players have a load of cards to play with, while new players can't necessarily compete with that.


I don't think the LCG angle would work as a compatible system with the CCG. Frankly, I wouldn't want it to be for the very reason you note. I care less about them saving the CCG and more about making it accessible to a wider community.


I disagree with the assessment that a lcg set won't be able to compete with an older collection. One of the great things about vtes is that old commons are perfectly able to compete with decks built out of the latest and rarest cards. Rarity in vtes is more about the number of that card you need and not its power level.

What the community needs is a way to get the a good selection of cards into newer players hands, to better enable those players access to the game and also allow older players to play with those new playes using their cards they already have.

An lcg set compatible with the current collection would best do this imo.
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Steven Lee
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Fair point and that would probably be the ideal approach. I doubt FFG would play nice on the compatibility issue if they were the ones to pick it up, though. Not only do they like to tinker (and with 20/20 hindsight on the game as a whole, that might not be a bad thing), but they'd need to recoup on all those licensing fees, and getting old players to buy the new sets would probably help in that dept.
 
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Geoff C
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Easy; throw some chase cards like freak drives and updated text cards with all changes into the mix.
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Tomas Syrovatka
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I see one problem with this: What I like about V:tES is that you can have unlimited number of one card in your deck (11 Sensory Deprivations anyone?). This would not transfer well to the LCG model and should they create some card limit (i.e. 3 cards like in most LCGs), the magic of the game would belost for me.

Btw. anyone got V:tES collection for sale?
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Geoff C
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I dont see how card limits come into this....the game rules would be unchanged and you can buy as many card sets as you like...the only reason to move to anything like an lcg model is to put a 'beginners set' into the players hands.
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Adrian Lovelace
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i would be up for it.. make cards readily available again!! i think the "no card limit" thing is kind of stupid anyway.. but to each their own. as a FF LCG the game would have more of a presence then it had before too.
 
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James King
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I haven't had a good run with any of the LCG games yet, but I'd love to see this game make a come back. If the LCG format is the way to go then I'd be up for it.

I think tweaking the rules to include variants for 2 and 3 players that are interesting would be necessary. Otherwise the base game is going to be pretty pricey to include enough decks for 4 players + counters + the edge piece.

 
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David Boeren
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Look at what's been happening with Netrunner. Prior to FFG reprinting it the old fans were very reluctant to see any changes.

Now, it's insanely popular and just about everyone agrees that all the changes are for the better of the game.

VTES could benefit greatly from the same treatment. Clean up some of the overly complex bits, reap the benefits of years of experience, and start over as a new LCG. There's no way they could keep compatibility with the old cards, and I think it would kill the game before it got out the door if they did. Can you imagine telling all the new fans they'll never win a game because some guy has a bunch of old cards in his closet? Watch the enthusiasm vanish into thin air.

The theme can be redone, they did that with Netrunner to avoid more licensing and they can do it here if needed.

A 2p variant would be practically required, there are a variety of them for VTES, they just need to go through them and assemble the best ideas into one official one.
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William Baldwin
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I think it will only be a matter of time before this happens, ESPECIALLY because of Netrunner's success.

However, let's face the biggest difference: we don't know what parent company CCP games wants. They have officially taken over 6 years ago and seem like they are slow to come around, at best to running the business they bought. They may mandate the Requiem (which I and every person on the planet refer to as the great mistake) be the system used which can work, but would probably lessen the incentive of another company to pick up the license.

My guess is that this will happen, but not for at least 2 years.

Odd that I wrote this on the 6th anniversary of the takeover.
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Joshua Manor
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Performing some necromancy on this post but for good reason. I want this LCG to happen. I have played VTES when it was dying and got into it big, buying thousands of dollars in cards. All the same I am willing to start over to bring this game back in the LCG format. Hell I have payed more for a single card on E-bay then the entire base set is likely to cost. I think the LCG format would not only bring back the game but it will also create a new player base.
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jon doedren
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http://www.vekn.net/vampire-elder-kindred-network/231-state-...

should be close to what you want, if not exactly it.
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