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Subject: Would you buy 'PanzerBlitz II'? A Poll rss

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Hunga Dunga
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Ok, the much anticipated follow-on to PanzerBlitz was a bit disappointing when it was finally published 30 years later.

But what if MMP took another kick at the can? What would make you buy "PanzerBlitz II"?

Poll
I would buy "PanzerBlitz II" if...
the counters didn't have side-nibs
attack strength, defense strength, range and movement factors on counters were corrected
the counter mix was more comprehensive, e.g. rocket launchers
the counter graphics was improved
the map graphics was improved
the counters were back-printed with "reduced capability" factors
it came with two back-printed full sized maps that would allow for e.g. one two-map game, one one-map game, and two half-map games
it included opportunity fire rules
it included aircraft
it included command and control rules
I would never buy this game, no matter how you changed/improved it
I like PanzerBlitz just the way it is and wouldn't want to change anything
      168 answers
Poll created by Hungadunga

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Robert Wesley
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Re: Would you buy 'PanzerBlitz 11'? A Poll
WERE 'moi' allowed to TOTALLY "redesign" JUST such, then, YES! whistle
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J.L. Robert
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Making the counters compatible with each other would be a start.
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401k? More like .357
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Other: Top down silhouettes, as opposed to profiles. I hate it when my tanks are facing the wrong way. It irks my OCD sense of order.
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Tim McCarron
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Missed an option - have it published by someone else
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John McLintock
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Finally released to the eager anticipation of impatient fans in 2009, Panzerblitz: Hill of Death has sunk almost without trace under the sheer weight of that poorly explained, creaky rules set. I still haven't even set up the counters—lovely counters!— for a solo trial run. Fortunately I've got a buyer.

Another go then? I'd take some persuading! yuk
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Michael Dorosh
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travillaintim wrote:
Missed an option - have it published by someone else


Exactly. Start up SPI again, and let them profit by their creation.

Possibly involving genetics.
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Michael Dorosh
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JMcL63 wrote:
Finally released to the eager anticipation of impatient fans in 2009, Panzerblitz: Hill of Death has sunk almost without trace under the sheer weight of that poorly explained, creaky rules set. I still haven't even set up the counters—lovely counters!— for a solo trial run. Fortunately I've got a buyer.

Another go then? I'd take some persuading! yuk


I didn't understand the rationale of taking a game with a dynamic title like PanzerBlitz which suggests rapid movement and lightning armoured victories, and setting it in the quagmire of the fighting south of Caen. Doubly ironic, since the Germans were on the defensive there.
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Michael Dorosh
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Some other options:

a) it included geomorphic maps of wide variety

b) it had a comprehensive suite of units allowing for scenario design

Agree with the comments above about making it more like "ASL" in form, i.e. allowed for expansion and a flexible outlook, just as the original did. I thought it was the original that if not introduced, then was one of the first board wargames to have such things as isomorphic mapboards you could butt together in different configurations, as well as a multiple scenario format.
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Tom Grant
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Hungadunga, I'm not sure if any of those options in your poll matter individually. Sure, a more comprehensive mix of units might be better, but only if it means the game has more replay value, not just variety for its own sake. (Conflict of Heroes seems to have done well with a fairly limited range of unit types.) Opportunity fire might matter, but only as part of a rules system that, in toto, creates the fastfastfast tank-on-tank action of the original.

It might sound like fairly murky guidance, but the best I can say is, I'll buy the game if it's really good. Otherwise, I need another tactical WWII game like I need a third nipple. And for new wargamers, which I'm hoping is the target market for a new Panzerblitz, just as the original was, an exciting, replayable game is a drop-dead, don't-even-bother-otherwise requirement.
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Aaron Cinzori
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The lousy rules were what made me ditch the re-boot. A clear, functional rule set is a necessity.
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Steven Mitchell
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travillaintim wrote:
Missed an option - have it published by someone else


Which would solve what problem specifically? Or is it just an irrational disdain for MMP? Because as stated, you aren't giving such a hypothetical different publisher any guidance on how to actually improve the product.
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Adam Siler
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Isn't the appeal of the original PanzerBlitz/Leader its simplicity?
I haven't played the new one - had no idea it was poorly regarded. It kind of makes me sad. I would like a game involving tank platoons that is a little bit lighter. I'm waiting for the upcoming Panzer (by GMT) for complexity with a focus on tanks.
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Barry Kendall
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CountDeMoney wrote:
Other: Top down silhouettes, as opposed to profiles. I hate it when my tanks are facing the wrong way. It irks my OCD sense of order.


Politely disagree with the above. Silhouettes are easier to ID at a glance, and besides, lend more of a sense of the soldier's-eye-view than a hovering-overhead perspective provides.

Besides, there's no order on a battlefield!
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Tom Willcockson
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Agree. At the ASL scale it seems you should have the vehicles seen top down , but once you have a platoon of tanks I think the silhouette is a better choice, although I would rather see several silhouettes to emphasize this is a multi vehicle counter. Didn't much care for the infantry figures on the counter in the new version of the game. Frankly I think the NATO symbol does a better job of conveying an infantry company at this scale. Or if you want to have figures make them much smaller and have more of them on the counter.

However mainly I'm just sad that this one was such a non-starter, I would still like to see it continued. I liked the idea of the historical board, however I would still like to see the old geomorphic boards, perhaps large size ones? I would like to see all the bugs worked out in the game and then re-issue the two original games with the new rules and graphics. I have not given up on this one yet in part because the offerings in this area from GMT, a company I really support, left me pretty flat.
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Robert Ridgeway
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Would be sufficient to upgrade as intended to AIW's standards + greater comprehensive assortment of units represented, scenarios, and terrain.

Of course, adding later scenarios published in The General and other game mags., as well as AH's "Guide To PB" would be a plus.

RE Unit Symbols: computer graphics / photo images for the units were great when they came out in the '90s, but are so commonplace now, there's nothing special about them ~ whereas the original silhouettes on the PB/PL/AIW system's units are Iconic (Nike wouldn't drop their 'swoosh', afterall).
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Lance McMillan
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Since I already have 'Panzerblitz,' and there are several other reasonably decent platoon/company level tactical games on the market already (APL's 'Panzergrenadier' and LnL's 'Nations at War' to name a couple), a 'Panzerblitz II' game would have to show me something special before I'd be willing to buy it. A simple graphics/component upgrade wouldn't cut it, nor would historically based terrain for the game map or a bunch more scenarios.

To pique my interest, the project would have to completely overhaul the old 'Panzerblitz' game system:

= streamline it so that the game plays faster and more intuitively.

= get rid of the clunky old "I go, you go" sequence and replace it with something that's more interactive and eliminates the "panzerbush" syndrome.

= provide a simple "fog of war" mechanic so that you get rid of the omnipresent "eye in the sky" issue that ruins most tactical games.

= address command and control in the game, yet not to an extent where the player has to orchestrate the actions of individual sergeants and lieutenants.

= introduce an element of unpredictability and the "friction of war" into the game beyond just the CRT; war at this scale is all about managing chaos, and the original 'Panzerblitz' was highly predictable.
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401k? More like .357
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Peso Pete wrote:
In the 40+ years since the original Panzerblitz came out, there are now plenty of good tactical-level WWII wargames that span from the (relatively) expensive Advanced Squad Leader to the free print-and-play Valor & Victory and everything in between.


Concur. It was a cutting edge game system for its time, but there have been many strides, and many titles, made since then.

After a while, some titles are better served with just good memories.

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Richard Boyes
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I bought Hill of Death and had a hard time getting going with it because the chit pull engine of the game was not very well explained. There were other faults with the rules too. But I did play it a little.

So I've been hoping for another installment in the series with cleaned up rules that will also help me restart Hill of Death. I'd also like the counter graphics to be sharper, which I seem to griping about in half the games I've bought lately (Amateurs to Arms! leaders, Nations at War: Operation Cobra, the ugly division of None but Heroes to name a few).

Maybe I should ditch my optimism, it always involves buying more games!
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Andy Beaton
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I think my PanzerBlitz/Leader days are pretty much passed, pushed aside by newer (1985) and better games. I might play a nostalgia game or two, but I wouldn't be buying it.
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Robert Stuart
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In my view the best successor to Panzerblitz is the Panzer Grenadier: The East Front series.

I don't see the need for another game in that particular niche, unless someone produces something of equal appeal (equal to Panzer Grenadier) with firm promises of VASSAL modules.

In another niche?

Greater complexity: Death Ride Kursk: Gross Deutschland – Updated 2016

Lesser complexity: Nations at War: White Star Rising.

[Somewhere in here Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division sits, but I haven't played it yet].

To compete in this arena (at the platoon level) would require something innovative, in my view -- perhaps, at the platoon level, innovations akin to those created for Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles -- or something with accompanying VASSAL modules.



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Robert Hawkins
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+1

bob_santafe wrote:
In my view the best successor to Panzerblitz is the Panzer Grenadier: The East Front series.

I don't see the need for another game in that particular niche, unless someone produces something of equal appeal (equal to Panzer Grenadier) with firm promises of VASSAL modules.

In another niche?

Greater complexity: Death Ride Kursk: Gross Deutschland – Updated 2016

Lesser complexity: Nations at War: White Star Rising.

[Somewhere in here Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division sits, but I haven't played it yet].

To compete in this arena (at the platoon level) would require something innovative, in my view -- perhaps, at the platoon level, innovations akin to those created for Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles -- or something with accompanying VASSAL modules.



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Warren Bruhn
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There is also the Grand Tactical Series. I'm playing The Devil's Cauldron and am having a good time with it.
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Roger Hobden
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What is needed is new and bold innovations in tactical combat design, not more of the same ...

There is not exactly a penury of tactical games at the present time, so unless something comes up that is truly innovative, it will just end it's career in the "me to" discard pile ...
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Tom Willcockson
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Well put it this way, I wouldn't buy Panzer Blitz/Leader II if it just took the original system and tweaked it, but if they completely revamped and redesigned the game and the original scenarios plus the ones published in the General (before taking the system into Historical Panzer Blitz aka the HASLs and new scenarios) I would pick it up in a heartbeat. A part of this is nostalgia sure, but those two boxes were excellent games with great scenarios.
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