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Dungeon Command: Sting of Lolth» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Creepy Crawlies: A 2x Sting of Lolth warband rss

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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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You can build the following by using two boxes of Sting of Lolth and the Game Day Drow Mage promo, if you have it. If you don't have the promo, you can conceivably replace the third Drow Mage with a fourth Demonweb Spider or an Umber Hulk, depending on metagame considerations.

Commander
Aliszandra Malistros

Creatures (12)
3x Demonweb Spiders
3x Drow Mage
2x Drow Priestess
2x Giant Spider
2x Drider

Orders (30)

Standard (8)
2x Lolth's Blessing
2x Shadowy Ambush
4x Deep Wound

Immediate (12)
4x Near Miss
4x Riposte
4x Close Call

Minor (10)
4x Quick Jab
3x Web
3x Faerie Fire

Board pieces:
Use all the drow ones for now, try to set it to Outside

Basic order deck construction: I try to stay close to 10/10/10 ratio but I tend to prefer Minor and Immediate over Standard. The reason is simple: Minors only cost a card, Immediates cost a card and a tap but it happens to be a tap on your opponent's turn (which is a ressource none of my creatures can use without an Order card, though in Cormyr you do have cards like the Cleric that can utilize that tap), but Standards actually cost you a tap on your creature's turn so they only should be used to actually improve your regular action.

Lolth's Blessing can be used to convert a useless Standard on a turn where you just deployed your Priestess and are not in range to an opponent into a continuous supply of Order cards. Shadowy Ambush is very strong in this deck since none of my creatures do more than 20 damage, effectively counting as +30 and a shift 2. And Deep Wound is very effective against a deck that has no Cleric (and therefore needs to rely on a Healing Potion or Saving Throw card to get rid of it) and is still decent otherwise. I may replace them with Piercing Strike though if I start seeing too many Clerics from opponents (as in that case it still does +10 but it also cancels all Immediate damage reduction AND the ability to cower).

Quick Jab is a no brainer, I might bring in Quick Shot at some point but unfortunately in this build it's only usable by Drow Mages. Faerie Fire is quite strong in a deck where you're likely deploying one or two creatures more than your opponent does. It's pretty good against top end creatures (Dragon Knight, Copper Dragon, Umber Hulk) as they will provide you easily with +30 or +40 damage. Both FF and Web can get cast by over half your creatures due to Drider being both a Drow and a Spider and because you have so many Mages. I might actually up Web to 4x if I can find something to cut for it.

The Immediates are all quite self-explanatory, you're not dealing as much damage as Cormyr and you need to have creature advantage on the board to be as effective, so you want to be able to protect your creatures from damage as much as you can. Riposte is great since most your creatures are melee. Because of my CCG addiction to card advantage I had Parry instead of Near Miss and noticed quite quickly that your limiting factor was the number of tap activations you can make in a game, not the number of cards you draw. You need that untap. Most of the time people will concentrate attacks on one guy so you only get to prevent damage once a turn unless you use Near Miss. Going 4x on Close Call just makes sense since you want to keep your Driders and Priestesses alive as long as you can.

Your commander and natural creature speeds let you basically have the most mobility of pretty much any warband out there, so your plan is basically to use Demonweb Spiders (and the rest of your band, but mostly spiders once you start engaging) to pick up all the treasures you can and force your opponent to deal with you or let you accumulate all the treasure tokens. With 12 treasure tokens on the board you can see the game as one in which we usually start with 18-ish Morale (12ish from Commander + 6 from your share of the treasures on the map) and each treasure you pick that is your opponent's is basically a +2 Morale swing in your favor. Punish players who ignore treasures and think of beating you on the field. You are fast enough that wherever they engage you can easily come in with reinforcements.

You would rather use the Drow boards because you don't want to provide Arcane Circles to your opponent, and without an Umber Hulk or other ways to use Hazardous Terrain you obviously would prefer the Outside board side.
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Nate Scheidler
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Immediates and Minors will definitely be the core of most competitive decks. I don't consider Sneak Attack or Killing Strike particularly viable in competitive play due to their costs, though we haven't seen what the CON power brings to the field yet. If the metagame starts yielding more creatures that need 80+ damage to kill, I can see where a deck filled with high-kill cards and discard tricks could be very strong.
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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IIRC Killing Strike is level 5, right? That means it can already be used as is by a few creatures in Cormyr. A band with at least 2x of Dragon Knight/Copper Dragon can probably play it viably, and occasionally do a blow out by playing it with a lower level guy thanks to assists. I play WIS cards in my deck even though I only have the two priestesses.

Sneak Attack OTOH is very hard to play as even the Umber Hulk would need an assist to play it. Until there's a level 6 DEX creature, I think it's just a useless card.
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Thomas Haver
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Well done, Jean Phillipe. I'm also interested to see what competitive play brings to this game.

If you could have 4x of everything, would you run more Drow Priestesses? Would you run more Drow Mage?


One card I really like as a glue card is "Level Up" from Heart of Cormyr. The card is level 1, can be used by anyone as a minor, and boosts both HP+20 & character level. Suddenly your Drow Wizards can use Fireball, or those tiny Demonweb Spiders are much more difficult to kill (and can start using lvl 2 dex cards).
 
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Thomas Haver
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
IIRC Killing Strike is level 5, right? That means it can already be used as is by a few creatures in Cormyr. A band with at least 2x of Dragon Knight/Copper Dragon can probably play it viably, and occasionally do a blow out by playing it with a lower level guy thanks to assists. I play WIS cards in my deck even though I only have the two priestesses.

Sneak Attack OTOH is very hard to play as even the Umber Hulk would need an assist to play it. Until there's a level 6 DEX creature, I think it's just a useless card.


Killing Strike is indeed Level 5, so Umber Hulk, Dragon Knight and Copper Dragon can use it without help. Behind Enemy Lines is going to be useful with any large creature.

 
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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To be frank I'm not sure about the Drow Priestesses. I notice I tend to only spawn them if I already have a WIS card in hand. Giant Spider is better if you don't have to use WIS (basically equivalent in stats but the large size makes for a better meat shield for your Mages and it has Scuttle).

If I had 4x of everything I might try playing 4x of Lolth's Blessing and a few Scheme, and up the Priestesses to 3x by cutting a Giant Spider. I would then also probably cut the remaining Giant Spider for a third Drider and try to play a fourth Demonweb Spider (which I guess would imply cutting a Mage) but probably keep playing only three.

I would certainly experiment with

3x Demonweb Spiders
2x Drow Mages
4x Drow Priestesses
3x Driders

but I'm not sure it's actually that much better. I find this game has a bit of a diminishing return for playing 4x of a single creature, unlike Magic or other CCGs. Having your Orders being very focused is better because you need the consistency, but when it comes to your creatures I think consistency gets beaten by having more varied options.
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Nate Scheidler
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Cashtool wrote:
... those tiny Demonweb Spiders are much more difficult to kill (and can start using lvl 2 dex cards).


Level Up states it can only be used on Humanoids.

Quote:
Behind Enemy Lines is going to be useful with any large creature.


Requires "Adventurer" creature type.


I think Sneak Attack, just 1, is useful.
- Assist can be from any creature adjacent to the *target*, not just adjacent to the creature being assisted.
- The threat of a player dropping a Sneak Attack may have your opponent holding onto immediates that they might otherwise use to prevent damage from smaller attacks. Even if Sneak Attack isn't in your hand, having creatures in a position to launch one could be a solid bluff.

Its far from useless, just like Killing Blow isn't useless... they're just a heavy shot to deliver, and they're most effective when your opponent is worrying about the possibility that you have one in your hand.

I think that you'll see a lot of Killing Blows and Sneak Attacks being delivered by assist rather than by creatures capable of doing it alone, for this same reason. The element of surprise.
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Thomas Haver
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Thanks for the correction, Nate. That's what I get for going by memory alone!

 
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Nate Scheidler
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I'd never run 4 priestesses, and probably never more than one. She's useful to get spiders into the fray, fast. Her best use is the very start of the game to establish board position. If I run out of spiders before my priestesses land, she's basically a bunch of squishy deadweight.

I don't think 4 of a given order or creature is a bad thing, as long as the 4 count piece is nearly universally useable.

I envision an ideal Drow open with the +movement commander is:

Drow Priestess
Giant Spider (+5 spaces)
Demonweb spider (+5 spaces)

Draw 3 creature cards, hopefully at least one more demonweb spider.

End of turn one, deploy new demonweb spider up to 11 spaces from where the Drow Priestess started the turn.

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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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Having 2x Priestesses is the minimum if you want to have better than even chance of having one in your starting hand (57%). With only one Priestess you'll only get to have one in opening hand 33.33% of the time (using the +speed commander with 4 creatures in her starting hand). The odds jump to roughly 75% if you have three and 85% if you have all four in the band.

If your strategy revolves around the Priestess more than mine does, I'd say 3x Priestesses is optimal.

Also, Lolth's Blessing and Scheme (and Arcane Ritual, which is not useful here) are the only cards that allow you to draw more Order cards than your opponent. That makes the Priestess a key creature, because Order cards are certainly the most important part of Dungeon Command. (Note of course that Lolth's Blessing is a long term investment, you need one turn to break even and three turns for it to be better than Scheme).
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Nate Scheidler
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I wouldn't call the priestess the sole strategy, she's an option. If I don't have her at the start of the game, I won't miss her and I'd rather have something else. Drow Wizard and Drider are obviously more useful in more circumstances than a Priestess with no spiders left to deploy.

However, if more interesting WIS cards get added for her to use, all of this changes.
 
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Kevin Tatroe
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
I find this game has a bit of a diminishing return for playing 4x of a single creature, unlike Magic or other CCGs.


When building warbands, I find that I rarely want more than 1-2 of the level 3+ creatures (and this will get even more so as more faction boxes are released) -- I want the choice of which max level creature to drop based on circumstance, not the opportunity to replace one max level creature with an identical one when it's destroyed.

On the other hand, I'm very glad to have picked up extra Order decks from a singles seller. It's not so much that I think you need 4 of each Order card to compete, but when I want to play a card, I really want to play that card every game, even if it's suboptimal, and stacking the deck helps me do that.

(I should note that I'm not very good at winning. I'm good at having fun.)
 
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Nate Scheidler
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ktatroe wrote:
When building warbands, I find that I rarely want more than 1-2 of the level 3+ creatures (and this will get even more so as more faction boxes are released) -- I want the choice of which max level creature to drop based on circumstance, not the opportunity to replace one max level creature with an identical one when it's destroyed.


Sounds sensible to me. When we finally have enough variety after a few more sets, I can see our early warbands evolving into that. Right now, I think we're mostly thinking "what combos would I most like to get on the field" and working off of that.
 
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stephen biggs
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I havn't played "Web". Is it actually worth it's space in the order deck?
Seems to be too easy to remove. Target can either stand still & attack. Or Move (and not attack) So only if it needs to both move and attack next turn would your opponent have any problem. And even in those restricted conditions it's no harder to remove than any other attachment {potion, saving role, dwarf priest}

Not sure your using enough spiders or Wis-type cards to justify using Drow Priestesses.
60HP & 20melee is the bottem end of the curve for level 3.
So you want to be using the other abilties. At the very least, a 3rd Lolth's Blessing And a 4th level-1 spider.
Note that level-1 creatures behave a bit like "cantrip" cards in MtG decks. If you draw then during setup, you can play them immediatly which lets you draw replacement creature cards. So the odds to deploy a priestess turn-1/2 increases.
 
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Nate Scheidler
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XAos wrote:
I havn't played "Web". Is it actually worth it's space in the order deck?
Seems to be too easy to remove. Target can either stand still & attack. Or Move (and not attack) So only if it needs to both move and attack next turn would your opponent have any problem. And even in those restricted conditions it's no harder to remove than any other attachment {potion, saving role, dwarf priest}.


Its probably going to become more viable as more cards enter circulation. I don't think most pieces are so disposable that players won't allocate much deck construction worrying about attachments. Even now, in a constructed environment, players will probably just say "it costs me an attack" and move on.

However, like all orders, its power is in the timing. If I can web your Dragon Knight and then scuttle/burrow/fly around it to slash your more vulnerable pieces, I'd call that a good use of web. Also, if any of the effects you describe above aside from Saving Throw are used to remove web, they're not healing... which could still be worthwhile.

 
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