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Subject: Behold: The Long List of Questions That Came Up on Utah Beach rss

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Lucas Townsend
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So, my group and I are playing Utah Beach. We collectively entered the bunker with 284 soldiers. I believe we were doing things wrong, but we went with the benefit of the doubt. So here's the questions:

1. Does the Special Find RWB count as your one item find for the turn if you use it to find a face down item?

Here's all the movement and sticking together questions:

2. Can multiple units not spend courage to move if they all move together with a whistle?

3. Can multiple units ignore Landmines if one unit uses a Mine Detector?

4. Can multiple units ignore Landmines if one unit has a Minesweeper specialist?

How we got tons of soldiers, not sure if legal:
5. I drew the Award that let you pick any reward (like the Allied version of the Iron Cross). I used it to pick up the Victoria Cross. All four of us moved to the sector where you can't re-roll skulls. A player previously found the Ammo Box and the K-Rations. Another player got the Dispatch Case. WE rolled a bunch of skulls, so we divided the awesome Reinforcements and Dead-Mans Gift RWBs, and gave two Dead Mans Gifts to the player with the Ammo Box. WE used the Ammo Box to change them all to Double Soldiers, used the K-Rations to double those Soldiers, and ended up with 36 Soldiers. The other player used his Dispatch Case to copy it for 24 Soldiers. We divided all our soldiers up for 48 Soldiers each, rolled a bunch of Battle Cries, divided our courage, blitzed up the beach, used the Mine Detector and Whistle to go into the Bunker and shoot the measly seven German Soldiers that remained after a Grenade and Flamethrower. We even were arrogant enough to save the seven soldiers with a Hero by spending Stars.

So, that question is, did we legally get those soldiers correctly?
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Mike Watne
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1) Yes, Special Find is your one allowed item find. Also, you still need to pay for that item.

2) No, the Whistle affects only the unit that played it.

3) No, the Mine Detector only affects the unit that played it. See bhz1's "whistle" response below for a clear explanation of how to apply this to all items.

4) No, only units with a Minesweeper benefit from it.

In general, anything that affects a "Unit" affects only the one unit. This is true for all specialists and items, unless explicitly stated. Items that affect a sector (such as the Grenade) will benefit all units in that sector for the turn. Items that affect the Bunker generally only benefit the unit that played it. My bad. Bunker is a sector for the purpose of items. It is the Specialist DEF reduction that doesn't apply to other units in the Bunker.

5) This combo seems legal. Ammo Box changes skulls to the result of your choice, and K-Rations double the dice result (not the RWB result) of "2 soldier" rolls. Victoria Cross allows all players to pool dice and reallocate them to units before the final tally (each unit must get 6 dice). So, allocating two Dead Man's Gift to a player with an Ammo Box leads to two "Fresh Troops" RWBs (24 soldiers), and burning a K-Ration adds another 12 soldiers, for 36 total. The Dispatch case would gain player 2 24 troops (2 copied "Fresh Troops" RWBs), and since each unit is in the same sector, troops can be traded freely. Good stuff.

Another thing to note is that the Bunker is assaulted by each unit on its own, even if they all move in together. That means that items like the Flamethrower reduce the DEF of the bunker by 10 ONLY for the unit that played it. It is very possible that two units assaulting the bunker at the same time will have very different DEF values to overcome. Largely false. Items affect all units in the Bunker. Specialists (Engineer) benefit only the unit who owns it. DEF reduction due to victorious units does not affect units assaulting the Bunker at the same time as the victorious unit.

[Edit: Clarity and corrections. Thanks for the discussion!]
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Big Head Zach
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Empires wrote:
1. Does the Special Find RWB count as your one item find for the turn if you use it to find a face down item?


Yes. It modifies the conditions of your one item purchase in Phase 3.

Empires wrote:
2. Can multiple units not spend courage to move if they all move together with a whistle?


No. It only affects the unit that plays it. Grenade, on the other hand, affects all units in the same sector because it specifies that the effect is on the sector. Flak Vest specifies it affects "your unit", and Flamethrower affects "your Bunker" (the one that the Unit using the Flamethrower is entering).

Empires wrote:
3. Can multiple units ignore Landmines if one unit uses a Mine Detector?


No.

Empires wrote:
4. Can multiple units ignore Landmines if one unit has a Minesweeper specialist?


No. In a sense, movement isn't exactly simultaneous - one unit will move before another, though they may all end up moving in the same fashion. Therefore, they will need separate tools/specialists to overcome an obstacle. Vehicles are notable exceptions to this rule because they specify that their benefits extend to any units in the same sector or moving with the unit that possesses the Vehicle.

Empires wrote:
5. I drew the Award that let you pick any reward (like the Allied version of the Iron Cross). I used it to pick up the Victoria Cross. All four of us moved to the sector where you can't re-roll skulls. A player previously found the Ammo Box and the K-Rations. Another player got the Dispatch Case. WE rolled a bunch of skulls, so we divided the awesome Reinforcements and Dead-Mans Gift RWBs, and gave two Dead Mans Gifts to the player with the Ammo Box. WE used the Ammo Box to change them all to Double Soldiers, used the K-Rations to double those Soldiers, and ended up with 36 Soldiers. The other player used his Dispatch Case to copy it for 24 Soldiers. We divided all our soldiers up for 48 Soldiers each, rolled a bunch of Battle Cries, divided our courage, blitzed up the beach, used the Mine Detector and Whistle to go into the Bunker and shoot the measly seven German Soldiers that remained after a Grenade and Flamethrower. We even were arrogant enough to save the seven soldiers with a Hero by spending Stars.

So, that question is, did we legally get those soldiers correctly?


I don't have the game on me at the moment, so I need to be reminded what the Victoria Cross and Ammo Box do.
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Big Head Zach
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thegreybetween wrote:
Another thing to note is that the Bunker is assaulted by each unit on its own, even if they all move in together. That means that items like the Flamethrower reduce the DEF of the bunker by 10 ONLY for the unit that played it. It is very possible that two units assaulting the bunker at the same time will have very different DEF values to overcome.


I've been playing under the interpretation (as the manual mentions) that if an item/card effects pertains to the sector, specific text notwithstanding, then the effect is applied to all units in the sector. Since Flamethrower lowers the DEF of the Bunker that the user is in, that is a Sector-specific effect, and should therefore apply to any Unit whose damage is determined by the Bunker's DEF value (that is now -10).

See above comparison of Grenade and Flak Vest for supporting examples.
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Marty Devine
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bhz1 wrote:
thegreybetween wrote:
Another thing to note is that the Bunker is assaulted by each unit on its own, even if they all move in together. That means that items like the Flamethrower reduce the DEF of the bunker by 10 ONLY for the unit that played it. It is very possible that two units assaulting the bunker at the same time will have very different DEF values to overcome.


I've been playing under the interpretation (as the manual mentions) that if an item/card effects pertains to the sector, specific text notwithstanding, then the effect is applied to all units in the sector. Since Flamethrower lowers the DEF of the Bunker that the user is in, that is a Sector-specific effect, and should therefore apply to any Unit whose damage is determined by the Bunker's DEF value (that is now -10).

See above comparison of Grenade and Flak Vest for supporting examples.


This is how we've been playing it. I know that the Specialists don't reduce for other players on the same turn, but we've been treating the bunker as any other sector as far as defense reduction is concerned.
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Mike Watne
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And you guys are correct. I've updated my post.
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David Anderson
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hentzau wrote:
bhz1 wrote:
thegreybetween wrote:
Another thing to note is that the Bunker is assaulted by each unit on its own, even if they all move in together. That means that items like the Flamethrower reduce the DEF of the bunker by 10 ONLY for the unit that played it. It is very possible that two units assaulting the bunker at the same time will have very different DEF values to overcome.


I've been playing under the interpretation (as the manual mentions) that if an item/card effects pertains to the sector, specific text notwithstanding, then the effect is applied to all units in the sector. Since Flamethrower lowers the DEF of the Bunker that the user is in, that is a Sector-specific effect, and should therefore apply to any Unit whose damage is determined by the Bunker's DEF value (that is now -10).

See above comparison of Grenade and Flak Vest for supporting examples.


This is how we've been playing it. I know that the Specialists don't reduce for other players on the same turn, but we've been treating the bunker as any other sector as far as defense reduction is concerned.


If a flamethrower can reduce the DEF for all players in that sector, why can't an Engineer?
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Mike Watne
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turtleback wrote:


If a flamethrower can reduce the DEF for all players in that sector, why can't an Engineer?

Because it explicitly states "for your Unit" on the card, IIRC.
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Big Head Zach
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That, or there's an understanding/rule that says Specialist effects do not apply to other units (the Messenger and Lieutenant being specific exceptions).
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Carlos S. Olivares Pérez
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Just to confirm, can I use the Leadership bonus of my Final Tally to add a new Star (for a total of 4) and get the Sector 11 bonus?
 
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