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Subject: After you stand up, can you do anything else? rss

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Bryce K. Nielsen
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In a turn where you are knocked down and no other hero picks you up, so you stand yourself up. I know you don't have anymore actions but can you do anything else? For example, can you use a skill that doesn't cost an action to use? Can you use your Feat? Can you use a Fatigue potion and then burn that fatigue to run away?

I haven't found anything in the rules contrary, so that's how we've been playing it, but after last night's game, we got to wondering if that was correct...

-shnar
 
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David Knepper
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On page 10 the rules outline the exact steps to take for the stand-up action and then it says the hero's turn is over.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Hm, I guess I was thinking where it state, "he may not perform an additional action" meant that his turn was over because he can't do actions, but non-actions may still be eligible. If that is not the case, that makes the die-rise-die cycle even worse...

-shnar
 
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Neil Sorenson
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First you get up, stand up, stand up for your rights...

then you get up, stand up, don't give up the fight.
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Tim Kelly
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Aging One wrote:
On page 10 the rules outline the exact steps to take for the stand-up action and then it says the hero's turn is over.

Makes it even more important for his buddies to do the "stand up" for him, so he can possibly do something constructive (or destructive) for the monsters.
TK
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Matt Boehland
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You can complain about how you're just going to get knocked down again.
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Christopher Scatliff
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It's about time, too.
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kakupacal wrote:
First you get up, stand up, stand up for your rights...

then you get up, stand up, don't give up the fight.

This is not the approved song for the knock down-stand up cycle.
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T France
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tkelly wrote:
Aging One wrote:
On page 10 the rules outline the exact steps to take for the stand-up action and then it says the hero's turn is over.

Makes it even more important for his buddies to do the "stand up" for him, so he can possibly do something constructive (or destructive) for the monsters.
TK


Or RUN AWAAAAAY!...
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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shnar wrote:
Hm, I guess I was thinking where it state, "he may not perform an additional action" meant that his turn was over because he can't do actions, but non-actions may still be eligible.

Yes, this section is worded in a very unusual way. Makes me think that the author wasn't thinking about non-actions and may need to revise that section.
 
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Mikkel Øberg
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shnar wrote:
In a turn where you are knocked down and no other hero picks you up, so you stand yourself up. I know you don't have anymore actions but can you do anything else?

No, as the rules state the following:

The Rules, page 10 wrote:
Stand Up (...) and then flip his hero Activation card facedown to indicate his turn is over (...)


I can see the discussion (as the sentence following the afore mentioned is unnecessary), but it seems sufficiently clear to me.
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Matt Lernout
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Smoo wrote:
kakupacal wrote:
First you get up, stand up, stand up for your rights...

then you get up, stand up, don't give up the fight.

This is not the approved song for the knock down-stand up cycle.


I get knocked down, but I get up again, you ain't ever gonna keep me down?
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T France
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Antistone wrote:
shnar wrote:
Hm, I guess I was thinking where it state, "he may not perform an additional action" meant that his turn was over because he can't do actions, but non-actions may still be eligible.

Yes, this section is worded in a very unusual way. Makes me think that the author wasn't thinking about non-actions and may need to revise that section.


I've been unable to find ANYTHING in the rulebook about non-action items and skills...hopefully I'm just overlooking something and some kind soul out there can point me in the right direction...
 
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T France
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Titeman wrote:
Antistone wrote:
shnar wrote:
Hm, I guess I was thinking where it state, "he may not perform an additional action" meant that his turn was over because he can't do actions, but non-actions may still be eligible.

Yes, this section is worded in a very unusual way. Makes me think that the author wasn't thinking about non-actions and may need to revise that section.


I've been unable to find ANYTHING in the rulebook about non-action items and skills...hopefully I'm just overlooking something and some kind soul out there can point me in the right direction...


I just noticed the text box on the bottom of Page 8 which talks about Exhausting and Refreshing cards. The example card is Tumble which states "Exhaust this card during your turn." Now to see if ALL non-action cards have text of this sort...
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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They don't. For one, there are many cards that don't involve exhausting. There are also some that can be done during the Overlord's turn. My whole confusion stems from the explicit text that no other action can be performed that turn. Does action mean Hero Action as defined on page 7? Or does it mean any hero 'stuff', actions, potions, skills, etc.

The wording of how a hero stands up on page 15 only seems to exclude Hero Actions:

Quote:
Unless revived by another hero, a knocked out hero may only perform
one action on his next turn, and that action must be to stand back up (see
“Stand Up” on page 10).


But when you move to page 10, you get:

Quote:
When a hero is knocked out, he can only perform a stand up action (see
“Knocked Out” on page 15). In addition, this action may only be
performed by a hero that is knocked out. To stand up, the player rolls two
red power dice, recovers damage equal to the ¬ rolled, recovers fatigue
equal to the ® rolled, replaces his hero token with his hero figure, and
then flips his Activation card facedown to indicate his turn is over (he
may not perform an additional action). If another figure occupies the
space containing the hero token, the standing hero figure is placed in the
closest empty space to his hero token of that hero player's choice.


It states after standing up the hero flips is Activation card and his turn is over. My confusion lies between standup and flipping card (i.e. ending turn). Can he use other stuff? Here the implication is "no", but it's not 100% clear, and I wish it was.

-shnar
 
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Ken Marley
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Since when you are knocked down you lose all of your stamina, it would be difficult to use most skills.

It is much better to have your buddy stand you up, then you can do something.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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youperguy wrote:
Since when you are knocked down you lose all of your stamina, it would be difficult to use most skills.

It is much better to have your buddy stand you up, then you can do something.

Yes, but you can get up to 2 surges, and if you are able to do non Hero Action stuff, you could take a fatigue potion...

Also note that your healer could heal, saving an action if possible (for example, Avric's Feat could heal someone who was down and all the others around him, and that downed hero is back up without anyone wasting an action to get him/her up).

-shnar
 
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Sylvain BONNEAU
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The wording on page 10 stipulates that (in order) to stand up you (have to) perform several things, one of them being ending your turn. In other words, to trigger the stand-up effect, you must pay its full price, which include forfeiting the rest of your turn. Until you effectively end your turn, the result of the stand-up action cannot be achieved: you are still knocked-down.

--
Buggy
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Tom H
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shnar wrote:
The wording of how a hero stands up on page 15 only seems to exclude Hero Actions:

Quote:
Unless revived by another hero, a knocked out hero may only perform one action on his next turn, and that action must be to stand back up (see “Stand Up” on page 10).


But when you move to page 10, you get:

Quote:
When a hero is knocked out, he can only perform a stand up action (see “Knocked Out” on page 15). In addition, this action may only be
performed by a hero that is knocked out. To stand up, the player rolls two red power dice, recovers damage equal to the ¬ rolled, recovers fatigue equal to the ® rolled, replaces his hero token with his hero figure, and then flips his Activation card facedown to indicate his turn is over (he may not perform an additional action). If another figure occupies the space containing the hero token, the standing hero figure is placed in the closest empty space to his hero token of that hero player's choice.


It states after standing up the hero flips is Activation card and his turn is over. My confusion lies between standup and flipping card (i.e. ending turn). Can he use other stuff? Here the implication is "no", but it's not 100% clear, and I wish it was.

-shnar

I think the rules are just forgetting to account for fatigue-moving and free abilities.

The almost identical phrasing happens in a normal turn after you do your (two hero) actions. I think they forgot to account for free abilities there too.
D2E Rules page 7 wrote:
4. Flip Activation Card: After a hero player has finished performing his actions, that hero player flips his Activation card facedown to indicate that his turn is over.

This hasn't taken into account familiar activation, which explicitly can happen on your turn after your actions. And if there's an opening in your turn for familiar activation after your actions then what rule stops you doing other "on your turn" stuff?

Would really like a FAQ on this.
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Tom H
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Bvggy wrote:
The wording on page 10 stipulates that (in order) to stand up you (have to) perform several things, one of them being ending your turn. In other words, to trigger the stand-up effect, you must pay its full price, which include forfeiting the rest of your turn. Until you effectively end your turn, the result of the stand-up action cannot be achieved: you are still knocked-down.

That makes sense, and shows how Stand-Up is different to the normal turn's two actions I just raised. I can't put it better than Steve-O on the FFG forums
Steve-O wrote:
Flipping over your activation card to end your turn is a completely separate step of the Hero Turn sequence than taking your actions for the turn, so there's definitely room in between taking your second action and flipping the card for you to do other things, like spend fatigue or activate a familiar.
 
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Allan Taylor
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My belief is you are not allowed to do anything else. It would be good if the manual had said that.

I can say that fatigue for moving is forbidden by the rules under additional movement on page 8. The last line says "During his turn, before or after resolving an action or during a move action, a hero may suffer fatigue to gain movement points". Since you need to stand up and must complete the action before using fatigue, your activation card will already be flipped over ending your turn.
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Kevin Smith
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My interpretation, from reading the rules online, is that on a turn where a hero takes a stand up action, that that is all the hero can do.
I'm using the first sentence under Stand Up on page 15 as the basis for this:

"When a hero is knocked out, he can only perform a stand up action (see
“Knocked Out” on page 15)."

I interpret this as meaning the only thing, action or otherwise (any feats that aren't actions, or "freebie stuff"), that the hero can do.

Kevin
 
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Mike Paivinen
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Bvggy wrote:
The wording on page 10 stipulates that (in order) to stand up you (have to) perform several things, one of them being ending your turn. In other words, to trigger the stand-up effect, you must pay its full price, which include forfeiting the rest of your turn. Until you effectively end your turn, the result of the stand-up action cannot be achieved: you are still knocked-down.

Buggy seems to have it nailed. You can't do anything before the stand-up action. Part of the stand-up action is to end your turn. How could you possibly do anything else?
 
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Tom H
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Can Syndrael use her special ability as she stands up? It seems to me she could because it's used at the end of her turn.

Syndrael: If you have not moved during this turn, you recover 2 Fatigue at the end of your turn.
 
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Triu Greykith
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Errata and FAQ Version 1.0 wrote:
Q: Can a knocked out hero do anything after standing up during his turn?
A: After performing a stand up action, the hero’s turn immediately ends. This means the hero cannot suffer any fatigue to gain movement points or use any other skills or abilities.
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Alexander Einich
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Terah wrote:
Can Syndrael use her special ability as she stands up? It seems to me she could because it's used at the end of her turn.

Syndrael: If you have not moved during this turn, you recover 2 Fatigue at the end of your turn.


Yes, Syndrael does recover 2 fatigue at the end of her turn after she Stands Up, since the condition, not having moved this turn, is met. It is not something she does, it is not an ability she "uses"; it happens to her, to the point that she can't even choose not to recover these 2 fatigue whenever she doesn't move.
 
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