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Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Trade Phase question rss

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John Thomasser
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My wife and I just started playing this game and I think I'm doing the trade phase wrong. The rules say players may perform this phase at the same time. So during my turn we both add up trade then during her turn we both add trade.

I'm thinking we should only be doing this once per round instead. So if I'm first player and during my Trade Phase we both adjust our trade wheels. Then during her Trade Phase we shouldn't add to out trade wheels.

Which way is correct?
 
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John Poskin
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You only add your trade to the wheel one time.
 
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Adrian Pirciu
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I think you got the turn order wrong...

It is not "your turn" (start of turn -> trade -> city management, etc) then "her turn" (start of turn -> trade -> city management, etc).

Instead, it's like this:
1. Start of turn (you both do actions here pertaining to this phase) - in order starting with the current first player
2. Trade (you both do actions here pertaining to this phase) - can be done simultaneously
3. City Management (you both do actions here pertaining to this phase) - in order starting with the current first player
[... etc ...]

This changes things a lot, I am not sure how you are playing it.

Adrian
 
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Matthias Andersen
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When the rules says turns are done simultaniously, it means that you can do it this way, if there isn't any reason not to. It makes things go a little bit faster.

You can also do the trade phase in turn order, which is actually the most correct thing to do. There can happen a few things in the trade phase which requires you to do it in turn order.

So try do it in turn order, and only add up your trade in your own trade phase.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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FrozenSquirrel wrote:
When the rules says turns are done simultaniously, it means that you can do it this way, if there isn't any reason not to. It makes things go a little bit faster.

You can also do the trade phase in turn order, which is actually the most correct thing to do. There can happen a few things in the trade phase which requires you to do it in turn order.

So try do it in turn order, and only add up your trade in your own trade phase.


I totally disagree with this. How can I trade you some of my trade on your turn if I haven't collected mine yet? This phase is simultaneous because it is interactive. What you do can affect what I do. I might be planning on giving you my excess trade from Horseback Riding, but someone else uses Horseback Riding first maxing out their own trade. Now it make sense for me to give them the extra trade because no one will benefit from it.
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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I agree - trade is collected by all players first. Then you do any trades between players. Which should then be done in turn order, so that you can only trade with the player who's turn it is (that is player B and C cannot trade between each other on player A's turn - otherwise it makes no sence to have the statement on p.12 that "This phase may be simultaneously performed by every player to save time").

It is a little difficult to get this from p.14-15 - much easier on p.12 under 2. Trade: "During this phase, each player collects trade from all of their cities, and then players may negotiate with each other,..."
 
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Daniel Hammond
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Randor20 wrote:
I agree - trade is collected by all players first. Then you do any trades between players. Which should then be done in turn order, so that you can only trade with the player who's turn it is (that is player B and C cannot trade between each other on player A's turn - otherwise it makes no sence to have the statement on p.12 that "This phase may be simultaneously performed by every player to save time").

It is a little difficult to get this from p.14-15 - much easier on p.12 under 2. Trade: "During this phase, each player collects trade from all of their cities, and then players may negotiate with each other,..."


You are totally making that up. There is no "in turn order" for Trade phase. Negotiations are open and there is no turn for it. We can do a three way trade if we want. I can give you X you give Egypt Y and Egypt gives me Z.

Even your quote, to mean what you are saying it means, it would have to say, "then players may negotiate with the person's whose turn it is, rotating turns as each player completes the Trade Phase" or something like that.
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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Are we still talking about CIv or is it Settlers of Catan?
 
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Daniel Hammond
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rdonoso wrote:
Are we still talking about CIv or is it Settlers of Catan?


The reason the Catan civilization died out so fast is because no matter how many soldiers they had, they couldn't even catch a single robber plaguing their island.
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Ricardo Donoso
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dlhammond wrote:
rdonoso wrote:
Are we still talking about CIv or is it Settlers of Catan?


The reason the Catan civilization died out so fast is because no matter how many soldiers they had, they couldn't even catch a single robber plaguing their island.

The robber paid the Knights their share, so the Knights deny the existence of the robber.
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Carsten Jorgensen
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I am not "making it up" - it was just how I had understood the rules . They are not exactly easy to read. And I thought that a three way trade came under the "non-binding Promises"? That said you might very well be right (after re-reading how it is explained on p.15, that does seem to contradict my view).

Edit: Yes, I probably have played too much Settlers of Catan - only "real" game the family wants to play .

But for the turn order. On p.12 just under Game Turn Overview:

"... During each phase, starting with the first player and continuing clockwise around the table, every player has the opportunity to perform the actions associated with that phase."

Unless there in a phase is something to contradict this (like there clearly is in phase 5) I would think, that the quote above applies to that phase.

And I don't think it is very clear when it comes to the Trade phase. Unless that is what they mean with "This phase may be simultaneously performed be every player to save time"?

I had read this as if the phase was actually supposed to be in turn order, but since most of the time there is no need for that, you could just do it simultaneously.
Or am I putting too much into the "save time"? To me that just seems to indicate my interpretation from above. I had understood it to mean something like: "you can play it this way to speed things up, eventhough it is not strictly the right way to do it".

The other interpretation is of course that the phase is always supposed to be simultanious. Much less complicated and also the way it is explained on p.14-15. I had just payed more attention to that on p.12. Also after re-reading the other phases it is clearly stated again in each one that the 1st, 3rd and 4th are done in turn order. But nothing about that in phase 2. Sooo you are most likely right about this one too...

But that raises one question. What if two players both wants to be the last one to do something in the trade phase? You could then have a waiting game.

Take your example from before. It might be an advantage to wait using your silk on horseback riding until the end of the phase, so you know which players cannot use the trade you give. If you do it too early a player might not trade to get more trade on his dial (and pay a lot for it - which you might like him too, since he is in the lead). He can see that you must use the silk to get the trade needed for a tech in phase 5, so he is waiting too.
Or for some reason two alliances have formed and both sides wants to trade inside the alliance. But first they would like to see what the other alliance trades, so they can plan their trade accordingly.

Would you not resolve this by turn order?

Sorry for yet again a long post - I really should try to keep them shorter .
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Daniel Hammond
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You are correct. If two players want to do something and both want the other person to do theirs first, then turn order would force it, in reality nothing in the Trade phase really works where doing it first/last gives you an advantage. Also nothing really says once your turn ends, you can't respond to something other people do in the Trade phase. I agree it could have been said better.
 
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Matthias Andersen
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dlhammond wrote:
FrozenSquirrel wrote:
When the rules says turns are done simultaniously, it means that you can do it this way, if there isn't any reason not to. It makes things go a little bit faster.

You can also do the trade phase in turn order, which is actually the most correct thing to do. There can happen a few things in the trade phase which requires you to do it in turn order.

So try do it in turn order, and only add up your trade in your own trade phase.


I totally disagree with this. How can I trade you some of my trade on your turn if I haven't collected mine yet? This phase is simultaneous because it is interactive. What you do can affect what I do. I might be planning on giving you my excess trade from Horseback Riding, but someone else uses Horseback Riding first maxing out their own trade. Now it make sense for me to give them the extra trade because no one will benefit from it.


I agree. I didn't think of it that way. I just tried to make it a simple phase.

But I see that it can't be done in any other way than what you are saying
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Robert Stewart
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dlhammond wrote:
You are correct. If two players want to do something and both want the other person to do theirs first, then turn order would force it, in reality nothing in the Trade phase really works where doing it first/last gives you an advantage. Also nothing really says once your turn ends, you can't respond to something other people do in the Trade phase. I agree it could have been said better.


If a Trade phase deadlocks, I'd rule it by borrowing the structure from combat: each player in turn order has the opportunity to do any trades/actions they choose. If anyone else makes any trades/actions after that, then the former player gets another opportunity to trade (whether they traded or not). In other words, when you say you're done trading, it actually means you're done trading unless anyone else makes a trade.

If everyone else declines to trade on their first opportunity, that leaves the last player in turn order the choice of trading first, and giving other players the chance to trade again, or not trading, and ending the phase.


If you want something simpler, you could instead say that each player only gets one chance to make their trades, in turn order.

Obviously, in either case, a player can only make trades that involve them.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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rmsgrey wrote:
dlhammond wrote:
You are correct. If two players want to do something and both want the other person to do theirs first, then turn order would force it, in reality nothing in the Trade phase really works where doing it first/last gives you an advantage. Also nothing really says once your turn ends, you can't respond to something other people do in the Trade phase. I agree it could have been said better. :)


If a Trade phase deadlocks, I'd rule it by borrowing the structure from combat: each player in turn order has the opportunity to do any trades/actions they choose. If anyone else makes any trades/actions after that, then the former player gets another opportunity to trade (whether they traded or not). In other words, when you say you're done trading, it actually means you're done trading unless anyone else makes a trade.

If everyone else declines to trade on their first opportunity, that leaves the last player in turn order the choice of trading first, and giving other players the chance to trade again, or not trading, and ending the phase.


If you want something simpler, you could instead say that each player only gets one chance to make their trades, in turn order.

Obviously, in either case, a player can only make trades that involve them.


I think it is much easier if you just take the Trade phase as simultaneous, ending when all players agree it is over (or if one is stubborn, when all but one say it is over).
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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no need to complicate simple things.
 
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