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Subject: Horrible game last night. rss

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Aaron
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I'd like to start out by saying this is one of my favorite games of all time.

Last night while playing a 6 player game, one of the players played horribly right from the start. Halfway through the game he had over 25 bonds. He decided he was gonna lose anyway so he started taking on bonds on purpose. Bidding and winning every auction. I know its a legal thing to do but I tried to explain to him that it messes up the game for everybody. I won because I sat to his left and ALWAYS had the second move.

Nothing you can really do about it other than not play the game with him. Its like playing pandemic and purposely not helping your team. Its like partnering up in spades or bridge and purposely making your partner lose. What's the point? Why ruin a game for 5 other people?
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I've played with some people like this, and I guess they figure, if they aren't going to have a good time, than no one else should either.

There are several auction variants that people use, that make the auction more fair to everyone, no matter who wins (instead of just going clockwise from the winner). However, this kind of play can still ruin some of those variants.

But it may be something to look into for games where you're not playing with this guy.

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Henry Allen
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This is one of my favorite games too but I've always thought it would be nice to have an official rule for making a graceful exit that doesn't unbalance the game for everyone else. I wouldn't expect it to be used often but it would be handy especially for new players who really can get out of it in their first game so that they don't feel obligated to play it out.

Based on your experience I could also see having a rule that imposes such a graceful exit on someone who goes into spiraling debt ...
 
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Eric Flood
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Magrot wrote:
Last night while playing a 6 player game, one of the players played horribly right from the start.


First mistake. Never play large player counts with unknown players. If you trust the players in the game, you may up the count. Until that time, split 3 & 3 every time.

Quote:
Halfway through the game he had over 25 bonds. He decided he was gonna lose anyway so he started taking on bonds on purpose.


Call the game immediately. Claim he won. Play another game 5p.

Quote:
Bidding and winning every auction. I know its a legal thing to do but I tried to explain to him that it messes up the game for everybody. I won because I sat to his left and ALWAYS had the second move.


This shouldn't be game-winning, but it is an advantage. With sufficient experience/good opponents, they should be able to overcome this advantage.
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Aaron
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blueatheart wrote:
[q="Magrot"]
First mistake. Never play large player counts with unknown players. If you trust the players in the game, you may up the count. Until that time, split 3 & 3 every time.


I never said he was an unknown player.



Quote:
Call the game immediately. Claim he won. Play another game 5p.


I wont disagree with you here.

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This shouldn't be game-winning, but it is an advantage. With sufficient experience/good opponents, they should be able to overcome this advantage.


Don't agree here. You may still be able to win against noobs but you're not gonna beat me if I'm first you you're sixth. especially if you are playing with the cards.
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Eric Flood
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Magrot wrote:
I never said he was an unknown player.


If he was known to be such a player, don't get into this 6-player game with him. Sit out, or bid points to be to his left.

There was a player in Tucson who I refused to play with, except for Imperial. He would play Imperial *really badly*, but in a way which changed the dynamics of the game in somewhat interesting ways (he would grab nearly all Britain, and turn it into a war machine), so long as we knew he would do roughly the same thing every time. He always lost, but always did the same thing, convinced that a warring Britain was an optimal strategy. You have to manage your gaming experiences with certain players in such a way that you don't get burned like this.


Quote:
Don't agree here. You may still be able to win against noobs but you're not gonna beat me if I'm first you you're sixth. especially if you are playing with the cards.


After the first turn or three, this rarely matters in RRT, and the player should be able to work around it, although it is rather annoying.
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Eric Flood
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blueatheart wrote:
Quote:
Don't agree here. You may still be able to win against noobs but you're not gonna beat me if I'm first you you're sixth. especially if you are playing with the cards.


After the first turn or three, this rarely matters in RRT, and the player should be able to work around it, although it is rather annoying.


To further explain this: after the behavior is known and predictable, players further down in the table order should never put themselves in the position where they are racing with a player who is upstream from them, directly (a cube here and there is fine, particularly if there are two or three available at once anyway). Railroad executive is the only card worth really winning, and your overly ambitious bidder should snap both of them up. Play for your position, and you should be just fine.
 
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Aaron
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blueatheart wrote:
Railroad executive is the only card worth really winning, and your overly ambitious bidder should snap both of them up.


You would think huh? I got them both 2 turns in a row.
 
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Eric Flood
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Magrot wrote:
blueatheart wrote:
Railroad executive is the only card worth really winning, and your overly ambitious bidder should snap both of them up.


You would think huh? I got them both 2 turns in a row.


I would just give the card to that player and tell them to take an additional action.
 
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Anthony Simons
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Magrot wrote:
I'd like to start out by saying this is one of my favorite games of all time.

Last night while playing a 6 player game, one of the players played horribly right from the start. Halfway through the game he had over 25 bonds. He decided he was gonna lose anyway so he started taking on bonds on purpose. Bidding and winning every auction. I know its a legal thing to do but I tried to explain to him that it messes up the game for everybody. I won because I sat to his left and ALWAYS had the second move.

Nothing you can really do about it other than not play the game with him. Its like playing pandemic and purposely not helping your team. Its like partnering up in spades or bridge and purposely making your partner lose. What's the point? Why ruin a game for 5 other people?

The solution is to avoid playing the version of this series of games which suffers the most flaws.

Base Steam would have worked much better in this respect, as would the original Age of Steam. In Base Steam, he would not have been able to do this as there are not any turn order auctions; in Age of Steam, he would have gone bankrupt very quickly and the rest of you would not have had to experience his idiocy for too long.
 
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Aaron
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fellonmyhead wrote:
Magrot wrote:
I'd like to start out by saying this is one of my favorite games of all time.

Last night while playing a 6 player game, one of the players played horribly right from the start. Halfway through the game he had over 25 bonds. He decided he was gonna lose anyway so he started taking on bonds on purpose. Bidding and winning every auction. I know its a legal thing to do but I tried to explain to him that it messes up the game for everybody. I won because I sat to his left and ALWAYS had the second move.

Nothing you can really do about it other than not play the game with him. Its like playing pandemic and purposely not helping your team. Its like partnering up in spades or bridge and purposely making your partner lose. What's the point? Why ruin a game for 5 other people?

The solution is to avoid playing the version of this series of games which suffers the most flaws.

Base Steam would have worked much better in this respect, as would the original Age of Steam. In Base Steam, he would not have been able to do this as there are not any turn order auctions; in Age of Steam, he would have gone bankrupt very quickly and the rest of you would not have had to experience his idiocy for too long.


I agree with this and next time I'll bring steam as an alternative. It's weird because I won and feel the most offended by it. Everybody else seemed to have a good time anyway. But it still bugged me a bit.
 
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Joe Mucchiello
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blueatheart wrote:
Railroad executive is the only card worth really winning.

This statement boggles my mind. A first turn service bounty without paying for your bid can result in a zero bond game. When you play expansions that use the passenger lines cards, turn order determines who will make that fourth delivery in both the first and second turns of the game depending on how many pairs of cities have reciprocal cubes.

We play with the vegas showdown/evo style bidding system to avoid the big spender killing the player to his right that the normal bidding system suffers from. If you never have a reason to bid to go first, your opponents are very kind letting you play in a corner by yourself. First rule of RotW strategy is "Go where the cubes are." Second rule is, "If you leave a player alone on the board, he will win because you aren't going where the cubes are."

Sometimes you MUST go before another player to get the 6-point delivery before he pinches it for a 4 points. The auction isn't just about the cards. It's about gaining tempo when you need it. And since RotW is a game of dwindling resources, tempo is generally important to winning.
 
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Eric Flood
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jmucchiello wrote:
blueatheart wrote:
Railroad executive is the only card worth really winning.

This statement boggles my mind. A first turn service bounty without paying for your bid can result in a zero bond game.


You earn service bounty, you don't take it (what I really meant by "win"). On the first turn, I doubt the pattern was apparent, even to the destructive player (it's not stated either way, but I'd be willing to bet that player didn't win the turn 1 auction). You would need both service bounty *and* a land grant to come up on turn 1, with a player poor enough to win the auction and not make use of it in order to get into the zero-bond situation.

Quote:
Sometimes you MUST go before another player to get the 6-point delivery before he pinches it for a 4 points. The auction isn't just about the cards. It's about gaining tempo when you need it. And since RotW is a game of dwindling resources, tempo is generally important to winning.


Again, understanding the pattern and not putting yourself in that position if you cannot win the auction is key to managing your tempo.
 
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