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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Militia block heroes rss

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Matt Grev
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Minnesota
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In the second encounter of the quest where you first have to save 4 villager and in the second you have to save Sir Pallamon(?) from getting killed by rushing to his aid we saved 3 of the 4 villagers. In the second encounter we 4 heroes spawned in the entrance square as the encounter rules said to spawn heroes first and then the villagers. so the villagers were blocking the only 3 squares leaving the entrance. Our OL placed the flesh moulders right adjacent to the villagers so the heroes could not move past the militia to fight the flesh moulders. In this way he caused us to waste our first turns until the militia could go and attack the moulders, then on the OL"s turn he started beating pallamon and killed him the turn after>

can the heroes switch places with the militia or do they have to block us? If they are meant to block us then it makes more sense to let them die as the rest of the encounter is a race to aid sir pallamon before he dies to the two ettins and liutenant monster.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Militia act like heroes, so they block LOS and Movement unless otherwise specified.

-shnar
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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shnar wrote:
Militia act like heroes, so they block LOS and Movement unless otherwise specified.

-shnar


...which is to say that they do not block movement at all for other heroes.
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Matt Lernout
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According the the Encounter description, the Militiamen are treated as hero figures with some noted exceptions as Smoo already pointed out.

If I'm reading the move rules correctly, your Heroes in your scenario could begin a Move action, move onto a space containing a Militiamen (as it is treated as a friendly figure), interrupt that move to perform an attack action, then continue the move as long as you end the movement action in a space without a figure.

Still not the greatest solution, but one Hero opening with "spend two fatigue for move" followed by two attacks on a flesh moulder should create a path for everyone else if that's how it was set up.


Edit: As Mike pointed out, the rules don't allow actually moving into spaces with figures (friendly or otherwise), but only through friendly figures.

As such, I guess the OL can fully block out the heroes during setup if they save more than one villager. Probably best to just let them all die in Encounter 1, then. :)
 
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Igor Pushkar
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BakaMattSu wrote:
According the the Encounter description, the Militiamen are treated as hero figures with some noted exceptions as Smoo already pointed out.

If I'm reading the move rules correctly, your Heroes in your scenario could begin a Move action, move onto a space containing a Militiamen (as it is treated as a friendly figure), interrupt that move to perform an attack action, then continue the move as long as you end the movement action in a space without a figure.

Still not the greatest solution, but one Hero opening with "spend two fatigue for move" followed by two attacks on a flesh moulder should create a path for everyone else if that's how it was set up.


According to the rules, if hero have ability to pass through an enemy figure, then he can enter square containing monster, interrupt his movement and make an attack (monster with such ability can do the same).
Also, in exact situation with militia, you can spend fatigue, move to space with militia and make two attacks.
 
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Justin Smith

New Hampshire
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BakaMattSu wrote:
According the the Encounter description, the Militiamen are treated as hero figures with some noted exceptions as Smoo already pointed out.

If I'm reading the move rules correctly, your Heroes in your scenario could begin a Move action, move onto a space containing a Militiamen (as it is treated as a friendly figure), interrupt that move to perform an attack action, then continue the move as long as you end the movement action in a space without a figure.

Still not the greatest solution, but one Hero opening with "spend two fatigue for move" followed by two attacks on a flesh moulder should create a path for everyone else if that's how it was set up.


You can interrupt a movement while on the same space as another figure? So If I have an Ettin with a bunch of goblin archers behind him they would use 2 movement to move to his front space, attack an adjacent enemy, then move back behind him? That doesn't seam correct...
 
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Igor Pushkar
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Draffut wrote:
BakaMattSu wrote:
According the the Encounter description, the Militiamen are treated as hero figures with some noted exceptions as Smoo already pointed out.

If I'm reading the move rules correctly, your Heroes in your scenario could begin a Move action, move onto a space containing a Militiamen (as it is treated as a friendly figure), interrupt that move to perform an attack action, then continue the move as long as you end the movement action in a space without a figure.

Still not the greatest solution, but one Hero opening with "spend two fatigue for move" followed by two attacks on a flesh moulder should create a path for everyone else if that's how it was set up.


You can interrupt a movement while on the same space as another figure? So If I have an Ettin with a bunch of goblin archers behind him they would use 2 movement to move to his front space, attack an adjacent enemy, then move back behind him? That doesn't seam correct...


Rules have nothing about interrupting movement action in non-empty square.
 
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Mike Paivinen
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soddy wrote:
According to the rules, if hero have ability to pass through an enemy figure, then he can enter square containing monster, interrupt his movement and make an attack (monster with such ability can do the same).
Also, in exact situation with militia, you can spend fatigue, move to space with militia and make two attacks.

I don't think this is correct. The rulebook, page 8, has the following to say:
Quote:
Figures cannot move into or through spaces containing figures or obstacles (see “Terrain” on page 18). [bold is mine]
However, figures may move diagonally (including around corners and between two blocked spaces) and through friendly figures. [bold is rulebook's]
A figure cannot end its movement in the same space as another figure.

The last sentence clearly applies to ending a move action, but all the other the majority of posts on this subject interpret it to mean interrupting the move action as well. (The paragraph on page 16 about interrupting large monster movement is explicit on this point.)

But, one need only look at the second sentence to reach the same conclusion. It grants an exception to the first sentence when moving through a friendly figure. But, it doesn't grant an exception for moving into the space with a friendly figure.


 
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Igor Pushkar
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knupug wrote:
soddy wrote:
According to the rules, if hero have ability to pass through an enemy figure, then he can enter square containing monster, interrupt his movement and make an attack (monster with such ability can do the same).
Also, in exact situation with militia, you can spend fatigue, move to space with militia and make two attacks.

I don't think this is correct. The rulebook, page 8, has the following to say:
Quote:
Figures cannot move into or through spaces containing figures or obstacles (see “Terrain” on page 18). [bold is mine]
However, figures may move diagonally (including around corners and between two blocked spaces) and through friendly figures. [bold is rulebook's]
A figure cannot end its movement in the same space as another figure.

The last sentence clearly applies to ending a move action, but all the other the majority of posts on this subject interpret it to mean interrupting the move action as well. (The paragraph on page 16 about interrupting large monster movement is explicit on this point.)

But, one need only look at the second sentence to reach the same conclusion. It grants an exception to the first sentence when moving through a friendly figure. But, it doesn't grant an exception for moving into the space with a friendly figure.




OK, I'll trust you, but for me as for non-english-native interrupt not equal to end movement.
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Mike Paivinen
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soddy wrote:
OK, I'll trust you, but for me as for non-english-native interrupt not equal to end movement.

Well, I don't know that you should trust me, I'm not an expert.

BUT, the second sentence I quoted from the rulebook is pretty clear. It only grants an exception for moving through a space with a friendly figure, not for moving into a space with a friendly figure. I'm pretty sure that's why they emphasized through friendly figures. I mean in a miniatures game, it's physically impossible to suspend your movement on a space with another figure.
 
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Matt Grev
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Actually that came up in our game too, we played it that the OL couldn't interupt his move to open a door unless he was actually able to expand his monster to full size in that space, which he could not.

So unless I can somehow attack through the militia in the scenario we encountered, we would be unable to move or attack the monsters adjacent to the militia. In that case we have to wait for their turn to be over which give the OL a distinct advantage considering the encounter is over as soon as he kills Sir Pallamon. That makes it seem like saving the militia hurts the heroes which seems unintentional. Obviously hero selection could alleviate this issue as well, but we are Descent virgins and playing our first campaigns
 
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Mike Paivinen
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I presume we're talking about Castle Daerion here. So, I went and looked up the encounter's Setup section. My conclusion is that the Setup rules are flawed. The OL controls the Setup and there's nothing that prevents the OL from blocking the heroes in with the militiamen and then placing the monsters adjacent to the militiamen, effectively eliminating the heroes' first turn.

However, I'm at a loss to understand how Sir Palamon died so fast. His Health is 25, and only the 2 Ettins can move close enough to attack him on the OL's first turn. I guess any remaining Moulders could be in Range by the OL's 2nd turn. But after that, it's game on.
 
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Matt Grev
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well if I remember correctly the first turn we couldn't move and the militia did their attacks killing one moulder. On the OL's first turn he attacked with the one zombie and got his ettins into place, possibly attcking once, I can't remember what cards the OL used but they eliminates 7 or 8 hp. The liutenant double moved towards pallamon.
2 nd turn we moved up and killed the rest of the moulders, then OL turn the zombie, 2 ettins and Liutenant attacked killing pallamon.
25 HP went down pretty fast.
 
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Mike Paivinen
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grevinator1 wrote:
well if I remember correctly the first turn we couldn't move and the militia did their attacks killing one moulder. On the OL's first turn he attacked with the one zombie and got his ettins into place, possibly attcking once, I can't remember what cards the OL used but they eliminates 7 or 8 hp. The liutenant double moved towards pallamon.
2 nd turn we moved up and killed the rest of the moulders, then OL turn the zombie, 2 ettins and Liutenant attacked killing pallamon.
25 HP went down pretty fast.
If that's the case, then I definitely think the Setup for that encounter is flawed. Or, perhaps the designers are counting on the OL's to not be so evil. devil
 
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Patrick Tondl
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I asked FFG about the issue, because I will soon be playing this quest. This is their answer:

"Yes, this is technically possible if the heroes manage to keep 3 of the villagers alive in the first encounter. We'll be addressing it as soon as possible in an FAQ update. What will most likely change is that the surviving villagers (Militiamen) will be placed after each hero has taken his first turn (and immediately activated based upon the specified rules)."

Sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
 
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Tom H
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knupug wrote:
However, I'm at a loss to understand how Sir Palamon died so fast. His Health is 25, and only the 2 Ettins can move close enough to attack him on the OL's first turn. I guess any remaining Moulders could be in Range by the OL's 2nd turn. But after that, it's game on.

Word of Misery + Overpower = 10-12 damage in a single turn from the lieutenant.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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knupug wrote:
However, I'm at a loss to understand how Sir Palamon died so fast. His Health is 25, and only the 2 Ettins can move close enough to attack him on the OL's first turn. I guess any remaining Moulders could be in Range by the OL's 2nd turn. But after that, it's game on.


Hell, even BlackBeltGaming's Youtube session of Castle Daerion ended turn 2 in an OL win, despite (IMO) very lax OLing, didn't seem to be gunning for the win full on (didn't block heroes, didn't use Throw, etc.).
 
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