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Subject: Update #28 - Rome wasn't shipped in a day rss

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Christopher Rao
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The good news is that so far our Black Box shipments have proven remarkably zombie-free!
Awesome Zombie Legionary by Justin Floyd - http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=m_student_profile&account_i....

Here’s where we’re at:

1 DELIVERIES TO STORES - Our Groton team has been trying to nail down shipping arrangements with all your local game stores. The good news is that only two stores have said no. The not as good news is that several other stores have been unresponsive to us and/or annoyed with us for these delays (go figure). Matt and Mithu are on the phones pretty much every day to get authorizations from the remaining stores. Also, we want to make sure that stores don’t authorize shipping of your Black Box, then just sell your game to someone else.

At some point, we'll have to arrange a workaround for stores that won't agree to accept Black Box deliveries or aren't responsive to us. Rest assured, we'll keep you in the loop when we have something to report.

2 U.S. - The games are warehoused in Boston, waiting to get through customs. Apparently the Bill of Lading I emailed was not an “original” Bill of Lading, so we have a new one coming from the Shanghai factory (also by email, but this time in .pdf, not MS Word, because apparently that's what it takes). So it looks like Amber or Chris will be able to pick up the games on Monday or Tuesday and drive them to Groton.

Once we get the games, our Groton team will be busy making sure that rewards for each backer get sent to the right address or store, as appropriate. (Note that games to South America will be shipped from Boston as well.)

3 CANADA - It’s been our goal to take care of all shipping costs for Canadian customers, including customs and GST. Hence my several hours of wading through customs’ regulations, talking to shipping companies, customs officials, etc. However, a couple of Canadian backers in an earlier thread seemed fine with paying the customs/tax themselves, upon arrival.

So here’s our offer – If you’re a Canadian backer and you don’t mind paying your own customs/tax upon the game’s arrival, just email kickstarter@cambridgegames.com and the Groton team will mail you your game, alongside the games they are shipping to US customers. If the game is going to a game store, you’ll need to confirm that you've worked it out with your local game store. In the mean time, we’re trying to work out a strategy to get the rest of the games to our Canadian supporters, free and clear of any taxes/customs fees. My best guess is that this means an extra 2-3 weeks, but I can’t promise anything right now.

4 EUROPE - We have received a notice from the shipper that the goods were scheduled to arrive on about July 21, but I have not yet received the actual arrival notice, possibly because our customs agent is on vacation until August 6th. There's little doubt that the games are there, but I need to coordinate with our agent to get the games through customs. Oh, and also, we don't actually have a warehouse in Holland yet, so Ed is arranging that part. As soon as the games are through customs, Ed will double-check rewards for European backers, then send out the games throughout the EU himself.

5 ASIA/OCEANIA - No, we haven't forgotten about you, but have not yet resolved the box damage issue. After getting photos of box damage from 3 backers (IIRC, from Malaysia, Australia and New Zealand), I sent these photos to our Shanghai agent. His response was “It's a little strange cause we have packed it very well.” Needless to say, this did not exactly comfort me - which puts us in a tough spot. We can either just go ahead and ship the remaining hundreds of Black Boxes around the region, hoping that these games are packaged more carefully by our agent (who assures us “I will pack them better than first time.”), or find another agent. I hope to have an answer for you all by middle of next week.

6 APOLOGIA - This has been an extremely ambitious project for a tiny, mostly-volunteer game company. In fact, the international shipping logistics (and costs!) alone prompted our then-Operations Director (a bright, hard-working, Mandarin-speaking import-export professional) to quit, more or less on the spot.

So I volunteered to be in charge of Black Box fulfillment. I don’t speak Mandarin, and until a few months ago I knew nothing at all about international shipping. But I’m what you’ve got (well, me plus our stellar Groton crew, plus Ed and Wake and Rob). We're gettin' there, but of course, there's still plenty of things that can go still go wrong.

If you have any comments/questions/tomatoes to throw at us, please only post onto the most recent update thread (this one for now). With everything else going on, it’s a bit unwieldy to monitor several threads at once effectively. I will try hard to answer your questions as time permits, but frankly what time I have beyond my family and high stress day job is probably best sent tackling these somewhat mesmerizing logistical challenges - so please understand that although we may not update quite as often as you'd like, we are working hard to fulfill each and every order for our supporters.

I can't promise that there won't be more delays. Or slightly dented boxes. Or uncooperative local stores. Or zombie penguins. I can only tell you that we won't stop trying to get it right.

We appreciate your patience very much - and completely understand why some of you are no longer patient. We remain hopeful that however you feel now, you’ll like the game once we finally get it to you.

topherr
Director of Production and Itinerant Game Designer
Cambridge Games Factory

UPDATE 28.1 (Sunday night): The pdf Bill of Lading was just emailed from Shanghai to Shipco in Boston. I'll double-check with Shipco in the morning.

UPDATE 28.2 (9:16 am, Monday): Nope, turns out that the Shanghai guy sent the wrong Bill. He says he'll send the right one tomorrow Shanghai time. So assuming he gets it right, looks like a Tuesday pick up.

UPDATE 28.3 (5 pm, Monday) Turns our that Tuesday proved impossible for our Groton team, so now we're shooting for Wednesday. Also, I checked with Chris in Groton, and we're a go for shipping USPS to any Canadian supporter who agrees to pay customs fees (if any). Finally, looks like we're going to go ahead and send the rest of the games throughout the AS region using the same Shanghai agent, and are currently working with him to ensure better packaging for the shipments. Amber or Chris will respond separately here to questions regarding when shipments will go out from Groton. And I will post another micro-update when we actually have the games in hand.
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Mark Johnson
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topherr wrote:
3 CANADA - It’s been our goal to take care of all shipping costs for Canadian customers, including customs and GST. Hence my several hours of wading through customs’ regulations, talking to shipping companies, customs officials, etc. However, a couple of Canadian backers in an earlier thread seemed fine with paying the customs/tax themselves, upon arrival.

So here’s our offer – If you’re a Canadian backer and you don’t mind paying your own customs/tax upon the game’s arrival, just email kickstarter@cambridgegames.com and the Groton team will mail you your game, alongside the games they are shipping to US customers. If the game is going to a game store, you’ll need to confirm that you've worked it out with your local game store. In the mean time, we’re trying to work out a strategy to get the rest of the games to our Canadian supporters, free and clear of any taxes/customs fees. My best guess is that this means an extra 2-3 weeks, but I can’t promise anything right now.


I have been very quiet up until now about anything relating to the Black Box except excitement over eventually receiving it. That said, you should know that that I'm pretty sure the only way you're going to ship to Canada without customs/taxes/surcharges/handling fees is using USPS. FedEx and UPS will charge a massive international surcharge which will cost about the same amount as the Black box edition cost, perhaps more. So, it feels like you're giving the follow ultimatum: "If we can ship it the cheapest way possible on our end and not receive backlash about the fees, we'll ship your copy when other people's copies are being shipped. Otherwise we're reserving the right to delay the shipping of your game for 2 - 3 weeks." Sorry, but that doesn't sound acceptable to me Chris. Of course I'll just have to deal with it, but I thought I would finally voice my displeasure. I would strongly recommend that Canadians not respond to this "offer" unless you're willing to possibly spend $40 - $50 on an international surcharge.

Are you offering a pick-up option at Gen Con? If so, can I have someone pick my copy up for me so I don't have to deal with these extra delays for Canadians?
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Is there any update for rubble supporters? Last I heard they were supposed to ship the week of June 29th after the arrival of the main air shipment. Have they shipped and mine is missing or are they still waiting.
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FWIW, a story about one game we had printed in China. The printer had decided (without saying anything) that rather than print a flat colour onto the rear of the gameboard, they'd print onto paper, then glue that to the back of the board.

To make it stick well, they had to wrap it round at the edges, onto the other side. To make it not cover the actual playing board image, they extended the board by a few mils around the outside.

Which, kind of, you know... made it a little too big for the box. Pretty tight, but they managed with some shoving to make it fit. Except the box lid now sat up a couple of mil. Fine, except you put a few of those on top of each other in a carton, which has been designed to fit things snugly, and then you need to really shove down to be able to close that sucker.

Somehow that still passed the Quality Control people we had hired. And so we received, some weeks later, an entire palette of nicely squished boxes. The printer tried to blame the shipping company, they blamed the printer... and eventually we got them to accept it.

But we were then late delivering the games to our customers.

We hired Q&A. We paid insurance. We provided excellent print and die-line files. What the heck else could we do? We couldn't even print it locally if we tried- there's no capacity in NZ anymore for this kind of thing.

So I feel your pain, and I truly hope that your Oceania shipment issues are just a couple of clumsy packers, and that the rest are fine.
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Christopher Rao
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Eeeville wrote:
Are you offering a pick-up option at Gen Con? If so, can I have someone pick my copy up for me so I don't have to deal with these extra delays for Canadians?
As far as I know, we won't have a presence at Gen Con, so I'm afraid we can't do this. Sorry about that.

Eeeville wrote:
I have been very quiet up until now about anything relating to the Black Box except excitement over eventually receiving it. That said, you should know that that I'm pretty sure the only way you're going to ship to Canada without customs/taxes/surcharges/handling fees is using USPS. FedEx and UPS will charge a massive international surcharge which will cost about the same amount as the Black box edition cost, perhaps more. So, it feels like you're giving the follow ultimatum: "If we can ship it the cheapest way possible on our end and not receive backlash about the fees, we'll ship your copy when other people's copies are being shipped. Otherwise we're reserving the right to delay the shipping of your game for 2 - 3 weeks." Sorry, but that doesn't sound acceptable to me Chris. Of course I'll just have to deal with it, but I thought I would finally voice my displeasure. I would strongly recommend that Canadians not respond to this "offer" unless you're willing to possibly spend $40 - $50 on an international surcharge.
I really think you've misunderstood me. CGF has no intention of saddling our Canadian supporters with huge international surcharges. As I have written before, this is my first time dealing with the complexities of international shipping, and I'm doing my best to get it right. This includes somewhat in depth research into the details of shipping via several different carriers, and exactly what the charges are at each step along the way.

The only reason we made the offer at all is because we wanted to be responsive to a couple of responses such as this from my last update:

UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
For those of us who paid extra for shipping to home, there are no complications.

All you need to do is put it in a box, send it US Postal Service, and write $35 as the value on the form at the post office. That's your cheapest route, as well as the customers (there will be minimal fees on our end, possibly zero depending on how the customs agent feels that day).
As this and my post here shows, I was only talking about customs/GST, not international surcharges. I'm not sure how you got that idea.

I'm sorry that shipping to Canada is more complicated than domestic shipping wtihin the U.S., but it just is (as your post shows). This is a big reason why it may take a little longer - in addition to actual shipping times. Our own shipping costs are just one part of our decision-making process for this. Mainly, we want to get it right. (This time, and each time after this...)
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topherr wrote:
So I volunteered to be in charge of Black Box fulfillment. I don’t speak Mandarin, and until a few months ago I knew nothing at all about international shipping. But I’m what you’ve got (well, me plus our stellar Groton crew, plus Ed and Wake and Rob). We're gettin' there, but of course, there's still plenty of things that can go still go wrong.

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Just to clarify, if we Canadians email you, you'll ship the game US Postal Service?
 
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I know this post seems to be mostly about Kickstarter supporters, but where do other retailers like CoolStuffInc fit into the picture? I suppose they'll just be getting their shipments once it's through customs?
 
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topherr wrote:

6 APOLOGIA - This has been an extremely ambitious project for a tiny, mostly-volunteer game company. In fact, the international shipping logistics (and costs!) alone prompted our then-Operations Director (a bright, hard-working, Mandarin-speaking import-export professional) to quit, more or less on the spot.


That of course is not new information.

This comment has been made before in other threads, but I think it bears repeating: There is a reason other companies neither try to ship out from multiple distribution sites around the globe nor ship to game stores instead of home addresses.
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Any news about South America? (I am waiting for my expantion and rewards!!)
 
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Just to clarify, if we Canadians email you, you'll ship the game US Postal Service?
IF USPS is the only way to avoid international surcharges for our supporters, then yes. Regardless, we promise that you wont't be saddled with such charges.
 
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Hav0k wrote:
Any news about South America? (I am waiting for my expantion and rewards!!)
See above:
topherr wrote:
(Note that games to South America will be shipped from Boston as well.)
 
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Christopher Rao
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Gilby wrote:
topherr wrote:

6 APOLOGIA - This has been an extremely ambitious project for a tiny, mostly-volunteer game company. In fact, the international shipping logistics (and costs!) alone prompted our then-Operations Director (a bright, hard-working, Mandarin-speaking import-export professional) to quit, more or less on the spot.


That of course is not new information.

This comment has been made before in other threads, but I think it bears repeating: There is a reason other companies neither try to ship out from multiple distribution sites around the globe nor ship to game stores instead of home addresses.
It's true that this isn't new info. On my last draft of the update, I took out the modifier "As I've said before," because the update was already so long and because everyone might not know this.

You could as easily have said "There's a reason other companies don't sell games with tons of linen cards for $35." We've tried to do a number of things differently with this project - our first ever non-budget, non-clamshell game. Some things have worked, and some have been more challenging. Some things have been really really difficult. It's our hope that when you get your game, you'll like it.
 
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dawson_osu wrote:
I know this post seems to be mostly about Kickstarter supporters, but where do other retailers like CoolStuffInc fit into the picture? I suppose they'll just be getting their shipments once it's through customs?
I think this is accurate, but I'm not in charge of this aspect of distribution. I believe that our primary goal is to fulfill Black Box for our Kickstarter supporters first, and for distributors immediately after - but again, not my call. What I can tell you is that Chris, Amber, Mithu, and Matt in Groton will all be working really hard to get each and every game to where it needs to go (along with all the Kickstarter rewards).
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topherr wrote:
2 U.S. - The games are warehoused in Boston, waiting to get through customs. Apparently the Bill of Lading I emailed was not an “original” Bill of Lading,

Was there anyone who honestly thought this game would not be held up in customs?
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I don't understand the issues regarding Canadian backers. Just ship everything USPS at the same time as the US backers. You aren't going to find a cheaper alternative, and we will pay little or no fees, especially compared to UPS or FedEx.

There is no other reasonable alternative as far as I know.
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Erratik wrote:
I don't understand the issues regarding Canadian backers. Just ship everything USPS at the same time as the US backers. You aren't going to find a cheaper alternative, and we will pay little or no fees, especially compared to UPS or FedEx.

There is no other reasonable alternative as far as I know.
As far as I know, there is no issue. Just send an email to kickstarter@cambridgegames.com saying that you're ok paying customs fees, if applicable, and we'll send your game. As I wrote, it's a bit trickier if you're having your game shipped to a game store, but still probably feasible. Please understand that although I'm responsible for shipping, I don't actually make all the decisions regarding which shipping company to use. We're just going to double-check that USPS is the most effective means, and then send it, that's all. Please just give us a few days to sort this out.
 
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So after it gets out of customs, what happens next? Are there a lot of steps between putting your hands on the games and shipping them out? Days, weeks, months?
 
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wafflesnsegways wrote:
So after it gets out of customs, what happens next? Are there a lot of steps between putting your hands on the games and shipping them out? Days, weeks, months?


You forgot "years?" in your multiple choice list ...
 
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topherr wrote:

That of course is not new information.


It was good to share it again, though. I'm not one who has been saying this is a disaster, but when an experienced employee sees a need to immediately leave upon hearing a plan, I have to think that some of these ideas were really best left untried.

Quote:
You could as easily have said "There's a reason other companies don't sell games with tons of linen cards for $35."


Well, at least not with international shipping. I understand that this was a way to try to make international shipping palatable in price. It just seems that wasn't worth the headache.

Quote:
We've tried to do a number of things differently with this project - our first ever non-budget, non-clamshell game. Some things have worked, and some have been more challenging. Some things have been really really difficult. It's our hope that when you get your game, you'll like it.


Well, I don't have one coming. I hadn't tried the game and was waiting. Coincidentally, I tried the game over the weekend for the first time. Now I'm quite sure I need to get a copy.
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Gilby wrote:
I'm not one who has been saying this is a disaster, but when an experienced employee sees a need to immediately leave upon hearing a plan, I have to think that some of these ideas were really best left untried.
topherr wrote:
You could as easily have said "There's a reason other companies don't sell games with tons of linen cards for $35."
Gilby wrote:
Well, at least not with international shipping. I understand that this was a way to try to make international shipping palatable in price. It just seems that wasn't worth the headache.
Perhaps. However, living in America it may be hard to understand just how big this issue is for people in Malaysia and Iceland and New Zealand (all places we're shipping to for no extra charge).

So it may be worth comparing our offer to two other rather prominent board game Kickstarter campaigns.

CGF - "Free shipping to any game store (anywhere in the world!). Please add $5 otherwise."

Company 2 - "You can get shipping to Canada for $20 additional dollars and anywhere else for $40 additional dollars. Also, please note that you may have taxes and or tariffs for importing games. [Our Company] will not be responsible for these costs."

Company 3 - [Base price to get game] - (US only. At this time, our bids for shipping are so high that we are not offering foreign shipping on games.)
[$52 more] - "CANADA! One copy of Game, shipped FedEx to Canada."

We're not trying to show anyone up here - this is really hard, and each company has to decide its own policies. But what we are doing here is non-trivial to non-US fans who usually can't get the games they want without huge fees, and sometimes not at all.

Gilby wrote:
Well, I don't have one coming. I hadn't tried the game and was waiting. Coincidentally, I tried the game over the weekend for the first time. Now I'm quite sure I need to get a copy.
Yes you do!
 
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topherr wrote:
Perhaps. However, living in America it may be hard to understand just how big this issue is for people in Malaysia and Iceland and New Zealand (all places we're shipping to for no extra charge).


I've paid attention to a number of campaigns. I've seen plenty of complaints from international-based users of BGG regarding shipping costs for pre-order campaigns--if international shipping is even offered. I can completely understand the desire to try to find a new way of doing things that makes it affordable to offer shipping to them at the same price as US customers. If it can be made to work I see a massive advantage for CGF game offers, but I'm just not sure it can be made to work. Problems with missing or undependable shipping agents is part of what defines working or not.
 
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Hi Chris, I have forwarded my geekmail regarding an address change to you. Have not had any luck with a reply from anyone yet so I'm posting here in the hope that it gets noticed.

EDIT: Thanks for the SUPER speedy reply!
 
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Gilby wrote:
topherr wrote:
Perhaps. However, living in America it may be hard to understand just how big this issue is for people in Malaysia and Iceland and New Zealand (all places we're shipping to for no extra charge).


I've paid attention to a number of campaigns. I've seen plenty of complaints from international-based users of BGG regarding shipping costs for pre-order campaigns--if international shipping is even offered. I can completely understand the desire to try to find a new way of doing things that makes it affordable to offer shipping to them at the same price as US customers. If it can be made to work I see a massive advantage for CGF game offers, but I'm just not sure it can be made to work. Problems with missing or undependable shipping agents is part of what defines working or not.
Well put. Getting good shipping agents at a reasonable price is pretty key to our plan. Wish us luck!
 
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thewatermelonman wrote:
Hi Chris, I have forwarded my geekmail regarding an address change to you. Have not had any luck with a reply from anyone yet so I'm posting here in the hope that it gets noticed.
Just responded to your email - and then saw you here again!
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