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Subject: still sitting on the fence rss

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Rick Teverbaugh
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Anderson
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I have only played the game once and it was with 6 players. I really liked it. But about 90 percent of my game playing is 2 players. So how good can it be with 2 and how do you play it when you play with 2?

Thanks for the help.

Rick
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Jay Reigns
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I personally don't like the two player variant. It requires the use of a dummy player, which I never find fun. Basically you take turns taking the "third player's" turn, which I guess some people may like due to added options and complexity, but I'm not a fan. If you can play with 3+ people once a month or so though, I'd say it's worth it. It really is a great game and one of my favorites, but if I was restricted to the two player version,it would end up on my trade list.
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Ville
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I think the sweet spot is 4 players. 3 and 5 players are ok, but 6 and 7 are a bit too much. Never tried the 2 player variant, but I don't think it's very good (because as said before it uses a dummy player).
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Runcible Spoon
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Archvile wrote:
Never tried the 2 player variant, but I don't think it's very good (because as said before it uses a dummy player).


So this user hasn't played 2p, and I would recommend to them to try it before dismissing it.

There is an excellent review for 2p and lots of comments from gamers who have played the 2p game.

I love the 2p game. The randomness goes down (you will see the same hand of cards more than once unlike a 7p game) and the level to which longer term planning (strategy) matters increases yet it is still very much a tactical (short term planning game) also which I think is a nice blend of both.

3p is good, and I am happy to play that

I am not interested in playing with 4p+ because it becomes a giant chaotic luck-fest and there are better games for 4p+.

Here is the 2p review http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/822438/2-player-shine-more-p...

Obviously the community is split on this issue based on the voting for the game and opinions like those expressed in that thread. Anyway, check out that thread as there is a lot of food for thought over there.
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Ron
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I just played two games with my wife and the dummy.

While not as good as a 4 or 5 or 6 (or 7 or 8) player game, it is still a great experience. If you like 7 Wonders, you sure will like 2 player games with it.
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P.D. Magnus
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I love 7 Wonders as a game with any number of players from 4 to 7. However, it's utterly lackluster with 2.

Mind you, the two-player game is not terrible. If someone really wanted to play it, I'd be willing. But I can't imagine that happening. There are a bunch of games in my collection which are much better with 2, and my wife and I would always pick one of those over 7 Wonders when it is just the two of us.

Part of what's nifty about the game with 4 or more players is that you can only directly interact with your immediate neighbors. So there are some people across the table who can trade with you and who won't fight you at the end of the age. Since your neighbors interact with them, though, you indirectly feel their influence. If your neighbor can buy bricks from their neighbor on the other side, then they won't get bricks themself; leaving you with no bricks to buy. If your neighbor is in an arms race with their neighbor on the other side, they'll escalate regardless of what you do. And so on.

With 2 players and the dummy (or with 3 players) there is just you and your immediate neighbors. So it's all direct interaction.
 
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Martin Presley
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If you want 7 Wonders around for the times you DO have more people around, know that while it's not the optimal 7 Wonders experience, it works just fine as 2p. I wouldn't get it just for the 2p though, there are many better games for that.
 
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Runcible Spoon
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pmagnus wrote:
With 2 players and the dummy (or with 3 players) there is just you and your immediate neighbors. So it's all direct interaction.


Exactly. Lots of direct interaction in the 2p game.

So if you like more strategy and tactics in your games and less chaos then 2p is the way to go.
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P.D. Magnus
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Runcible Spoon wrote:

So if you like more strategy and tactics in your games and less chaos then 2p is the way to go.


If by 'chaos' you mean cool interaction effects, yeah. The 'strategy and tactics' of the direct interaction is not what makes 7 Wonders great. There are other two player games that do it better.
 
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Christopher Roos
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While the thing that makes 7 Wonders more unique in a collection is it's ability to scale to 7 players while not requiring any extra time to play, it's a very functional and very different game with 2 players.

In a game with more players, you have less control of the game and have to rely more upon watching other players and trying to foresee what they will do....and since the other players are doing the same thing, it becomes a sort of daisy chain effect. In a way you're doing what's best for you while trying to force the people next to you to also do what's best for you...which you can only do very subtly.

The two player game is entirely different, denial becomes probably the most important part of the game. Giving the free city trading posts to face your opponent, trashing all the extra War cards to build the free cities wonder....manipulating the resources so the free city is basically your cash cow. You feel like two Super Powers both trying to use the inferior neighbor to get a leg up on eachother. That said it's 20-25 minutes to play and then you can grab different boards and do it again. Throw in top notch art and it's a good experience with 2 players especially given the play time.

It almost feels like you're getting 2 games, one that you play with a larger group and an entirely different game one on one.
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Runcible Spoon
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thereelaristotle wrote:
It almost feels like you're getting 2 games, one that you play with a larger group and an entirely different game one on one.


You make some good points, and I like this quote in particular.
 
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