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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Skilled Retreat AC with no reinforcement CCs rss

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Adria D
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Quick question regarding a situation we just had come up:

What happens when a player plays the Skilled Retreat action card and they don't have any Command Counters in their reinforcements?

We came up with 3 options, but are unsure which is correct. The player:

1. Doesn't spend a CC to activate the destination system. This is in line with not having any Command Counters for the Diplomacy SC, but leaves the destination system unactivated, which seems rather powerful (especially when the retreating player is pulling his main fleet out of danger).

2. Takes a CC from his Strategy Allocation, much like a Tactical Retreat.

3. Takes a CC from a pool of their choice.

Thoughts?



edit - card text:

Choose one of your fleets that is participating in a Space Battle. Place a Command Counter from you reinforcements in a friendly or empty unactivated system adjacent to that fleet. Move the chosen fleet into that system.
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Scott Lewis
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My feeling is the card couldn't be played in that situation.

The card requires you to put a CC from reinforcements into an adjacent system, and then move your ships into that system. If you have no CC from reinforcements, you cannot put it into an adjacent system; there is thus no "that system" to move your ships.

I guess technically speaking I would say you could play it, but it wouldn't do anything if you can't place the CC.
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Fedor Syagin
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Is there official ruling on what happens when someone play diplomacy or signal jamming and there is no counters in reinforcements?
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Scott Lewis
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garfielder wrote:
Is there official ruling on what happens when someone play diplomacy or signal jamming and there is no counters in reinforcements?

For Diplomacy II, if they have none left in their reinforcements, they must take it from their race sheet; this is actually listed in the rules for Shattered Empire, page 14.

I'm not sure if Signal Jamming has been addressed specifically, but the FAQ does have this entry:

Q: If a player has all 16 Command Counters in use on the board or on his Race Sheet, can any effects or actions that require additional Command Counters for that player take place or be resolved?
A: No.

This means for Signal Jamming, if you have none left in Reinforcements, it has no effect. I would say it also applies to the original question in this thread. Diplomacy II is only handled differently because the rules for Diplomacy II specifically say so.
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Fedor Syagin
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sigmazero13 wrote:
garfielder wrote:
Is there official ruling on what happens when someone play diplomacy or signal jamming and there is no counters in reinforcements?

For Diplomacy II, if they have none left in their reinforcements, they must take it from their race sheet; this is actually listed in the rules for Shattered Empire, page 14.

Duuuh... I even remember now reading this and thinking --- good that this is clearly written out Rules. Who remembers them
Thank you for reminding us.
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Adria D
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Apparently I left out option 4: Can't play the card at all.

sigmazero13 wrote:

For Diplomacy II, if they have none left in their reinforcements, they must take it from their race sheet; this is actually listed in the rules for Shattered Empire, page 14.

[snip]

Q: If a player has all 16 Command Counters in use on the board or on his Race Sheet, can any effects or actions that require additional Command Counters for that player take place or be resolved?
A: No.

I think we've been using the latter bit from the FAQ to resolve Diplomacy II - I didn't realize there was an exception for that SC. Good to know!
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Adria D
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The argument for using the AC with a CC from the player's race sheet was that it was supposed to be a 'free' retreat (CC from reinforcements), and the player felt he should be able to 'pay' for it using an already allocated CC.

To keep the game moving, we let him use his last Strategy Counter (like a Tactical Retreat) to perform the retreat. He wanted to use a CC of his choice though, given that he had a whole bunch in his Command Pool from a recently-performed Leadership action.

But it looks like the Skilled Retreat should not be allowed if the player doesn't have the required CC (placing the CC happens before moving ships), so that's how we'll do it in the future.

Thanks!
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