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Subject: Pass through enemy hex without ships? Scuttle own ships? rss

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Chuckhazard
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My reading the rules made me think you could pass through a hex that contained another players influence marker but no ships. As long as you don't stop there, you will not bomb their population in the combat phase, and will not break diplomatic relations with them. Is this correct?

Second, A planta player last night built a dreadnought in the far reaches of sector III space. He wanted to know if he could scuttle his ship, so he could rebuild it somewhere else. Our ruling was no, is this correct?

Thanks.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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chuckhazard wrote:
My reading the rules made me think you could pass through a hex that contained another players influence marker but no ships. As long as you don't stop there, you will not bomb their population in the combat phase, and will not break diplomatic relations with them. Is this correct?
No, it is not correct. English rulebook, p. 11 (printed in bold, extra emphasis mine): "Moving your Ships to a hex where the other player has a disc or a Ship is also considered an attack."

chuckhazard wrote:
Second, A planta player last night built a dreadnought in the far reaches of sector III space. He wanted to know if he could scuttle his ship, so he could rebuild it somewhere else. Our ruling was no, is this correct?
Correct. There are no rules governing the scuttling of ships, nor is the concept even mentioned anywhere in the rules. Thus, since there are no rules governing or mentioning it, it cannot be done.
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Chuckhazard
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Thanks, but actually that's the part of the rulebook that gave me that impression, because of the word TO rather than "to or through". However I've found some reliable corroborating evidence for your viewpoint:

Re: Can you mnove through an allied players hexes?

This fellow Sampo seems to know a thing or two about Eclipse...
 
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Trevor Schadt
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chuckhazard wrote:

Thanks, but actually that's the part of the rulebook that gave me that impression, because of the word TO rather than "to or through".
Even if a Ship does not end its movement in a given hex, it has still moved TO that hex.

Analogy: if you drive from your home in Arkansas to Alabama and pass through Mississippi on the way (without stopping), can you really claim that you have not driven to Mississippi?
 
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Chuckhazard
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ryudoowaru wrote:
chuckhazard wrote:

Thanks, but actually that's the part of the rulebook that gave me that impression, because of the word TO rather than "to or through".
Even if a Ship does not end its movement in a given hex, it has still moved TO that hex.

Analogy: if you drive from your home in Arkansas to Alabama and pass through Mississippi on the way (without stopping), can you really claim that you have not driven to Mississippi?


Yes, actually, but that's really beside the point. Thanks for your prompt replies.
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Daniel Hammond
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chuckhazard wrote:

Thanks, but actually that's the part of the rulebook that gave me that impression, because of the word TO rather than "to or through". However I've found some reliable corroborating evidence for your viewpoint:

Re: Can you mnove through an allied players hexes?

This fellow Sampo seems to know a thing or two about Eclipse...


Sampo is in fact an Eclipse demi-god.

Ships move hex by hex. If I move through an area of yours with an influence disk I moved to that area even if the next thing I did was move out.
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Chuckhazard
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dlhammond wrote:
chuckhazard wrote:

Thanks, but actually that's the part of the rulebook that gave me that impression, because of the word TO rather than "to or through". However I've found some reliable corroborating evidence for your viewpoint:

Re: Can you mnove through an allied players hexes?

This fellow Sampo seems to know a thing or two about Eclipse...


Sampo is in fact an Eclipse demi-god.

Ships move hex by hex. If I move through an area of yours with an influence disk I moved to that area even if the next thing I did was move out.


Thanks. This is the part that was non-obvious to me (clearly) We've just come off playing a bunch of TI3, I was considering the destination system "activated", so it was the one that mattered.
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Philip Thomas
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dlhammond wrote:
chuckhazard wrote:

Thanks, but actually that's the part of the rulebook that gave me that impression, because of the word TO rather than "to or through". However I've found some reliable corroborating evidence for your viewpoint:

Re: Can you mnove through an allied players hexes?

This fellow Sampo seems to know a thing or two about Eclipse...


Sampo is in fact an Eclipse demi-god.

Ships move hex by hex. If I move through an area of yours with an influence disk I moved to that area even if the next thing I did was move out.


If this wasn't the case you could teleport through systems with enemy ships in them, ignoring pinning because "I never moved to that system...
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David desJardins
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Philip Thomas wrote:
If this wasn't the case you could teleport through systems with enemy ships in them, ignoring pinning because "I never moved to that system...


The Movement rules say:

"If your Ships move into a hex, or out from a hex, containing other players’ or Ancient Ships, at least one Ship per each opposing Ship must stay (the Ship is said to be "pinned") and engage in combat in the Combat Phase (see pages 18–21)."

The Influence rules say:

"Moving your Ships to a hex where the other player has a disc or a Ship is also considered an attack."

It's slightly ambiguous, the word "into" could possibly be interpreted differently from the word "to".
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Matthew Hart

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So to clarify....If I move through a players hex with an influence marker but no ships, there is nothing that states I have to stop there, or resolve any combat action there...

In our game last night I move through my opponents hexes to get to an ancient (wanted the discovery VP and Rep tile). I moved through 3 of there hexes to end my move in the hex with the ancient.
 
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David desJardins
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Hartm wrote:
So to clarify....If I move through a players hex with an influence marker but no ships, there is nothing that states I have to stop there, or resolve any combat action there...


True. But, if it's your ally, then it still counts as breaking your alliance. Or so it seems.
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Matthew Watson
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Hmm, I'm still not sure exactly what the consensus was on this.
There's two cases, but I think one one has been unequivocally answered:

(1) You CANNOT move through a hex that contains an ally's influence marker, even if there are none of your ally's ships there.

But does this mean that you can move other ships through, having left one there "pinned" as it were? Do the pinning rules apply to influence disks as well as ships?

Now the unclear (to me) case:

(2) Can you move through a hex that contains only an ENEMY'S influence disk (there are no ships there)? If not, then do the pinning rules apply (i.e. can you leave one ship there and move others through)?

At the moment I'm tempted to just play with the pinning rules applying to influence markers if and only if there are no enemy ships in the hex. (Otherwise, you ignore the influence marker when determining how many of your ships are pinned.)

If case (2) is allowed, then it seems odd that you can move through an enemy's hex but NOT though an ally's hex!

And if pinning rules aren't applied, it gets even weirder... You'd be allowed to pass through an enemy hex containing a single enemy ship if you leave one ship pinned. But if there were no enemy ships, you'd not be allowed to pass through extra ships (if the pinning rule wasn't enabled).

Actually, after thinking about all of this, perhaps the rule is simply: You cannot move through a hex containing an enemy influence disk; all your ships must stop there.

Is there a definitive answer?
 
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Daniel Hammond
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HisDivineShadow wrote:
Hmm, I'm still not sure exactly what the consensus was on this.
There's two cases, but I think one one has been unequivocally answered:

(1) You CANNOT move through a hex that contains an ally's influence marker, even if there are none of your ally's ships there.

But does this mean that you can move other ships through, having left one there "pinned" as it were? Do the pinning rules apply to influence disks as well as ships?

Now the unclear (to me) case:

(2) Can you move through a hex that contains only an ENEMY'S influence disk (there are no ships there)? If not, then do the pinning rules apply (i.e. can you leave one ship there and move others through)?

At the moment I'm tempted to just play with the pinning rules applying to influence markers if and only if there are no enemy ships in the hex. (Otherwise, you ignore the influence marker when determining how many of your ships are pinned.)

If case (2) is allowed, then it seems odd that you can move through an enemy's hex but NOT though an ally's hex!

Is there a definitive answer?


Completely wrong.

You CAN move through the former diplomatic "ally's" territory that has no ships. You return your diplomats, put cubes back on your population track and you take the Traitor card.

Only ships pin (all ships not your color and ancients unless you are Draco) and the center beastie pins infinite ships.

Diplomatic relations are not the same as allies. Basically you have trade agreements, not a military pledge to fight together. Alliances are an expansion option.
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Matthew Watson
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Ah good, thanks.

So it's simply that passing through an ally's territory will end the diplomatic alliance.

And you can just pass through any enemy hex that contains only an influence marker.

Simple, and thematically correct.
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