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Subject: Sails of glory preview rss

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Roberto Di Meglio
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A new preview has been posted today on the Aresgames website:
http://www.aresgames.eu/4865
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JB
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I see a ship model but no board, is it a miniatures game ?
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Andrea Angiolino
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As Wings of Glory (a WW1 and WW2 themed air combat game) and the previous Wings of War, it is a miniature game to be played on any table, carpet, floor, beach towel...



Or on themed playing mat. Maybe official ones will follow, sooner or later...

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Roberto Di Meglio
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It does not use a board, it is played on a tabletop like a miniature game.
Sails of Glory is the "younger brother" of the Wings of War/Wings of Glory game.
 
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JB
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OK, thanks or the quick response.
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Man thinks, the river flows.
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    Is there going to be a card version, or is it strictly models this time?

    Also, is there a ship sheet to record damage, speed, and other information?

             S.


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JB
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Sagrilarus wrote:

    Is there going to be a card version, or is it strictly models this time?

    Also, is there a ship sheet to record damage, speed, and other information?

             S.




Hey Sagrilarus, I'm impressed by the lat & long on your avatarthumbsup
 
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Man thinks, the river flows.
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JBTheChamp wrote:

Hey Sagrilarus, I'm impressed by the lat & long on your avatarthumbsup


    I'll meet you there for a pint someday.

             S.


 
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JB
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Sagrilarus wrote:
JBTheChamp wrote:

Hey Sagrilarus, I'm impressed by the lat & long on your avatarthumbsup


    I'll meet you there for a pint someday.

             S.


or 2...
 
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Steven R
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Looks good so far. Only concern is going to be the price point on ships. I bought a dozen GHQ 1/1200 Napoleonic Ships about 10 years ago...assembled and painted for about $12-14$ apiece.

The mock ups are not bad and could be weathered and shaded to taste. If the cost is in range with the GHQ or Langton models, It would probably work. However, it sounds as though a lot of work goes into these, so I'm not real optimistic at this point.
 
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Andrea Angiolino
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Sagrilarus wrote:
is there a ship sheet to record damage, speed, and other information?


Yes it is.

The detail on the uppper left of this image is part of this sheet. The boxes indicate guns and crew efficiency, and are covered by damages - you use the first uncovered box, so that efficiency decreases when the ship is hit.

The system is based on seperated hull and crew damages... More details in future previews.

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Roberto Di Meglio
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TheFlatline wrote:
swr66 wrote:
Looks good so far. Only concern is going to be the price point on ships. I bought a dozen GHQ 1/1200 Napoleonic Ships about 10 years ago...assembled and painted for about $12-14$ apiece.

The mock ups are not bad and could be weathered and shaded to taste. If the cost is in range with the GHQ or Langton models, It would probably work. However, it sounds as though a lot of work goes into these, so I'm not real optimistic at this point.


The thing that killed Wings of War for me was the 15 dollar a model price point.

Expensive as hell. I suspect the price will be similar/higher, which blows because age of sail doesn't start getting really interesting until you hit the squadron/fleet action.


Hey, if an assembled 1/1200 ships costed $12-$14, 10 years ago, I don't think our models will compare that badly.

In any case, the SoG system is a little more "tactical" than most, and it has been designed to be fun to play even with small actions with 1-4 ships on each side.
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Tom Shydler
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Looking forward to this line! Thanks for putting out some info!
 
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Derek Gillam
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Am I the only one that saw this thread & thought....another CDG Paths of Glory game (by Ted himself?!)

Possibly on the Napoleonic naval campaigns!
 
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Steven R
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cybernex wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:
swr66 wrote:
Looks good so far. Only concern is going to be the price point on ships. I bought a dozen GHQ 1/1200 Napoleonic Ships about 10 years ago...assembled and painted for about $12-14$ apiece.

The mock ups are not bad and could be weathered and shaded to taste. If the cost is in range with the GHQ or Langton models, It would probably work. However, it sounds as though a lot of work goes into these, so I'm not real optimistic at this point.


The thing that killed Wings of War for me was the 15 dollar a model price point.

Expensive as hell. I suspect the price will be similar/higher, which blows because age of sail doesn't start getting really interesting until you hit the squadron/fleet action.


Hey, if an assembled 1/1200 ships costed $12-$14, 10 years ago, I don't think our models will compare that badly.

In any case, the SoG system is a little more "tactical" than most, and it has been designed to be fun to play even with small actions with 1-4 ships on each side.


GHQ is high quality metal and the prices have gone up a little since I purchased and not everyone cares to assemble and paint, as a matter of fact, I'm the only gamer in my group that collects and paints miniatures and board games.

And, yes, 1 on 1 ship actions can be enjoyable. But, I'm sure most people want to fight squadron and fleet actions. The preview sample ship is a standard 74 gun Ship of the Line which means they were intended to fight in line of battle and rarely saw individual combat. To form a line of battle and play anything close to a historical scenario I would say you would need a minimum of about 5 ships per side. If you had to collect these individually at $15 apiece that would be $75...so the British fleet a Trafalgar would cost somewere around $500. I'm sure the game is going to be quite good, but many gamers don't have a miniature collectors mindset. They see 1 game, then a bunch more cool stuff, start doing the math and WHAM! $200 spent and you still have 1 game.

Seriously, if you want to temp newbies to venture into this game, the entry level price needs to be reasonable. If the starter set costs around $70, I think it's going to flop big time, which would be sad because I love this era and have long been waiting for a game like this to be produced.
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Roberto Di Meglio
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The game can be very satisfying with small units action, which may well represent a small portion of a battle (which can be in fact, very often, fragmented into a lot of episodes involving only a few ships).

I can imagine something like Trafalgar or other big battle being played by a club or at a gaming convention, but this system is not really designed to play with 50 ships on each side at home.
A new player may have a good experience out of the box at a price similar to that of a boardgame, and expand his fleet gradually over time - no need to cash out 100s of $ all of a sudden, or ever.

In any case, it's very difficult to create a quality painted and assembled model at a low price. A Langton 1/1200 unpainted metal model costs around $ 15...
We are trying to get the ships out at a reasonable price, because clearly, the lower the entry point, the better! But there's a realistic limit, so I can just hope that your "prophecy" is wrong.

Saying that Sails of Glory will "flop big time" because you can not play Trafalfar without spending a lot of money, is like assuming that Wings of Glory should have failed because you can not play the Battle of Britain (fortunately it didn't...) And in which miniature system (naval or otherwise) two players can start playing spending less than $ 70 between them? And in which naval miniature system you can play Trafalgar without spending undreds of dollars?
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Terry Zembrzuski
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I think this game will or will not be a flop based more on the game itself and less on the price point of the base game and ships. Look at how much people spend on ccg's and other miniature games. A lot of them quite average games. Personally I have high hopes for this game. If it has the depth of Wings (ie all the different game options/rules), can scale from small 1 on 1 shoot outs to full fleet battles and has acceptable quality miniatures then I think this game is going to be a hit. Yes there is always a few people who are going to cry foul on the price of the game or the ships should be better, but I believe the type of gamer this one is going to ultimately appeal to is going to be won or lost on how well the gameplay is implemented.
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Andreas Johansson
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I spent 200 GG and all I got was this lousy overtext!
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Stalkingwolf wrote:
I think this game will or will not be a flop based more on the game itself and less on the price point of the base game and ships. Look at how much people spend on ccg's and other miniature games. A lot of them quite average games.

I dunno if it works quite that way. With minis (and SoG is a minis game), a lot depends on the quality of the minis - if you don't like the rules, you can use the minis for other games. I've seen WoW minis used for number of different games.
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Terry Zembrzuski
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And I'm sure people will find other uses for the SoG minis as well. There are already plenty of high quality model ships out there. And there are people who have actually protested that the game is using minis and not cards if you can believe that! I know, insane! LoL j/k. Anyway my point is SoG is first and foremost a game and also has to account for extra bits and pieces and play testing and still manage to do it at a reasonable price point. And on a still young companies budget. So again, I believe the success of SoG, assuming the models and extra bits are of decent enough quality, is going to ride (or sail as it were) on whether or not it can capture the feeling of naval combat to a wide skill level.
 
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Steven R
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I think the point is being missed here. Clearly everyone on this thread is a fan of this type of game, either the Wings of War game enginge or Nautical Games or both. However, that doesn't mean it's going to be a commercial success. I hope so, but I firmly believe that fence sitters will not be motivated to take the plunge if the opening price and additional ships are too expensive...just logical. Additionally, most collectable miniature games haven't faired to well, largely because or price and/or playability of rules. But awesome rules are not enough to be successful.
 
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Terry Zembrzuski
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Actually it's not being missed. That's in part what Ares has addressed. There has to be happy medium where the price point is low enough not to push away people but still have some measure of quality to appeal to another group. They can't put out as detailed models as some would like and the price maybe a bit higher than others would like. And that's because you have Preassembled, prepainted modeles along with extra game pieces, r&d, play testing and marketing to account for. I have faith that Ares will find that middle ground and provide a great game that will make most people content.
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    Jeeze, most games coming out now are at $69.95. If they're even in the ballpark of that price they'll do fine.

             S.

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Ted Groth
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swr66 wrote:
And, yes, 1 on 1 ship actions can be enjoyable. But, I'm sure most people want to fight squadron and fleet actions. The preview sample ship is a standard 74 gun Ship of the Line which means they were intended to fight in line of battle and rarely saw individual combat. To form a line of battle and play anything close to a historical scenario I would say you would need a minimum of about 5 ships per side. If you had to collect these individually at $15 apiece that would be $75...so the British fleet a Trafalgar would cost somewere around $500. I'm sure the game is going to be quite good, but many gamers don't have a miniature collectors mindset. They see 1 game, then a bunch more cool stuff, start doing the math and WHAM! $200 spent and you still have 1 game.


What I want to see, are smaller vessels, such as Brigs, Schooners and Sloops, as were used in the smaller but critical engagements of the Great Lakes in the War of 1812. A squadron of 9 American vessels (54 guns total) vs. 6 British (63 guns total) so easily affordable, particularly if smaller models are even a little lower price than the 74 gun ship of the line.

The Bicentennial of the Battle of Lake Erie is 2013, so delivery of the game could be right on time, if these smaller vessels are made available quickly! I would love to see a Battle of Lake Erie edition ship pack out by next summer, if that is still possible.

Besides, as a small boat sailor myself, I just like the appearance of the smaller vessels.

Edit: I have no intentions of ever trying to stage something the size of Trafalgar in any case. I would never ever have the patience, the space or the group to do it, even if the game were free!

Later Edit: Just in case I wasn't clear, I am very eagerly looking forward to this game, with the large/medium ships already announced, even though I don't anticipate putting together massive historical scenarios. I do hope to see smaller sailing vessels soon though!
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1812 is very interesting and really suits this game format well. The frigate size and under makes for the best historical 1 on 1 match ups. Doesn't sound like they're going that direct to start. If they are going to start with 74's and only have 4 ships in the starter set...I'm not sure what to think...not enough to make a squadron or historical scenario. Although the 74gun 3rd rate vessel was the mainstay of the Napoleonic fleets, so starting with it would imply ship of the line style battles. I have usually fought 6 per side with something like...

French: 2-80g,and 4- 74g
British: 1-100g or 98g, and 4 74g

With maybe a frigate each side for rescuing crew or towing.

What I've seen thus far I really like and hope that it's a big success. Not many gamers for this in the Phoenix area...hoping I can find a few interested gamers because Wings of War was a great success either. Other items would be great as well, harbor pieces, forts, islands, sea mats, sunken ship/burning ship markers...all cool.
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Terry Zembrzuski
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swr66 wrote:
What I've seen thus far I really like and hope that it's a big success. Not many gamers for this in the Phoenix area...hoping I can find a few interested gamers because Wings of War was a great success either. Other items would be great as well, harbor pieces, forts, islands, sea mats, sunken ship/burning ship markers...all cool.


A friend of mine lives in Phoenix and I'm hoping to turn him onto this game.

I agree completely! This is a lot of stuff I thought about when they first announced the game. I can't wait to see the rules for the game so we can start thinking up scenarios with ideas like this. Actually this is why I haven't purchased Merchants & Mauraders. Granted they are very different games but if SoG is as good as I think it's going to be then M&M would probably end up in the closet collecting dust. SoG is more of the kind of game I've always wanted to see. The waiting is a killer! LoL
 
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