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Sergeants Miniatures Game: Day of Days» Forums » General

Subject: Historical Setup of Squads rss

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Todd
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Hi All,

I was attempting to Google the historical setups of the forces in SMG to attempt to get a better representational set of soldiers for the game. I found a couple of remote answers to squad composition and would like to translate it to the game.

Are the Squad bundles a good representation? It looks like it would be about correct on the German side with the MG42, 2 leaders, and the rest riflemen but the US side looks off and just a good mix of troops to mirror the Germans.

Does anyone have a good idea of specific orders of battle for the units we are playing in the game?

Thanks for any information,
Maus

-----

Here are the tidbits I managed to find for reference:

Germany - 10 men(-): The basic German squad centered around an MG34 or MG42 general purpose machinegun (GPMG); personal weapons for the gunner and assistant gunner were pistols (generally), squad leader (MP40 SMG), 7 riflemen (Karabiner 98K 'Mauser' bolt action rifle). As the war progressed and manpower losses mounted the Germans were forced to reduce squad size to 9 men (dropping a rifleman). Panzergrenadier squads (halftrack mounted) had 8 dismounts with 2 GPMGs; Fallschirmjager (paratroop) squads were authorized 11 men, also with 2 GPMGs. In 1944 and 1945 many squads were below authorized strength even after replacements.

US Army Infantry Squad - 12 men: Squad leader (Thompson submachine gun 'SMG', M1 carbine, or M1 Garand rifle), 10 rifleman (M1 Garand rifle), 1 automatic rifleman (BAR). Organized as: Able Team (2 scouts); Baker Team (5 rifleman), Charlie Team (3 rifleman + BAR). One rifleman per platoon would generally carry a bazooka in addition to his personal weapon. There were 3 rifle squads per platoon in a rifle company.

US Airborne Infantry Squad - 12 men: same as infantry squad except that the BAR is replaced by a M1919A1 light machine gun (LMG). Same organization as the regular infantry squad. In practice the organization was flexible to the mission with one or more rifles often replaced by submachine guns and one man in the squad carrying a bazooka (generally one per platoon).

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_men_in_a_squad_in_World_W...

The other was the article posted here: http://www.cons.org/redwolf/infantry-toe.html
 
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Sgt. Hulka
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Bayonet Strength is the best site I've found for this sort of thing:

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/

I don't know about the Luftlande, specifically, but it looks to be just basic Heer infantry. In mid 1944 that would be a nine man squad: 1 leader with MP40, 1 assistant leader with MP40 or Kar98, 1 MG-42 or -34 gunner, 1 MG Assistant with Kar98, and 5 riflemen with Kar98. But you might have more or less men on any given day, so the squad bundle pretty much nails it.

For the Airborne, you're right, 12 men. 1 Leader with Carbine, 1 Assistant Leader with M1, 1 1919A4 or A6 Machine gunner, 1 assistant machine gunner, 8 riflemen with M1. There were technically no BARs, but paratroopers had a reputation of grabbing a lot of non-regulation weaponry, like pistols and tommy guns and grease guns and BARs. The squad bundle is basically an Airborne squad minus two guys who got lost during the jump.

Note that Airborne platoons only had two Rifle Squads, not 3 like regular infantry.
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Todd
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With all my poking around the internets, here's my best guess:

German (1944)
1x Leader w/MP40
5x Riflemen w/Mauser
1x Rifleman w/MP40
1x LMG (MG42)
1x LMG Assistant w/Mauser
--
9 total soldiers

US (1944)
1x Staff Sgt
1x Sgt
7x Riflemen
1x LMG or BAR
1x Assistant
1x Ammo carrier w/rifle
--
12 soldiers

I suppose the units could be split up into functional teams as left to the imagination of the player. Of course these are just guesses at an optimal layout.

Thanks for the help with the article, Sgt. Hulka. I think I still have a lot to learn!

Maus
 
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Greg
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The interesting thing is that there are more American soldiers in a squad than there are Germans, but in our games there have always been more Germans than Americans. I guess the rest of the American squad got lost.

Those are good starting points though for people to work around and use.

Seems like you can split up the Americans into half a squad of 6 figures and go against a full squad of 9 Germans and still be in the ballpark for equal VP's.
 
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Todd
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With my rough averages on points based on my extreme subset of figures:

German (averages)
Leader (8vp x 2 = 16vp)
Riflemen (2.5vp x 6 = 15vp)
MG42 (7vp)
Grenades (6 for 2vp)
---
Total 40vp w/9 figures

US (averages)
Leaders (8vp x 2 = 16vp)
Riflemen (3.5vp x 9 = 31.5vp)
.30 cal (7vp)
---
Total 55vp w/12 figures

So 2 squads of Germans vs 1 squad of US Paras is about right as far as equal forces go given the troop quality, point values, etc.

This also tells me I need to get another MG42 squad for our 4 player games which I didn't realize until now.

Maus

1. Edited for stupid math errors.
2. Edited with Jeff's comments.
 
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Jeff Billings
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Actually by 1944 the Germans had cannibalized the training commands to surge manpower into the field. In 1943 a German Sergeant had as much classroom training as an American captain. By 1944 they were promoting survivors rather than undertaking detailed training. The Light divisions usually were the recipients of the best replacements since in German military theory those divisions were the tip of the spear when it came to infantry operations. The regular infantry division was utilized to hold ground and secure gains. All the Light divisions were organized with a 2 regiment format that included capable light troops emphasizing maneuver joined with a regiment that had some sort of elite troops or special capability to concentrate the punching power. The general operational employment was focused on either penetration or exploitation and holding until the regular units could arrive.

So for your Luftlande you are short a leader in your post. They would likely include some guys you don't have yet. For example, a marksman (High VP) capable soldier with special tactics and a 3x scope on his rifle. Typically a 6 to 7 VP private. And two grenadiers, These are soldiers you have except they need to be festooned with grenades and deployed on an assault team panel (Coming in Equipment and Tactics) and using special Organization cards that make showering the opposition with grenades, including using them to cover advances against unseen enemies, part of the normal regimen. These won't raise the cost but they will increase tactical capability while loosing some endurance. The 3 grenades per soldier will increase the VP by 1 each.
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Jeff Billings
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In the case of the 91st Luftlande the two regiments of Grenadiers were augmented by the 6th Fallschirmjager regiment.
 
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Todd
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Jeff,

Thanks for the feedback and the information. If you have any suggestions for a book to read, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I updated my previous post with your info and I can't wait for the equipment and tactics deck to come out.

Maus
 
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Kevin Duke
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"Lions of Carentan" provided a lot of info for what is coming down the pike.
 
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