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Subject: FAQ 1.3 rss

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Jeff Overweg
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FFG has posted FAQ 1.3.
About time.

Big things:
Beravor is limited to once per round.

Zigil Miner
Has been erata'd to read: “Action: Exhaust Zigil Miner and name
a number to discard the top 2 cards of your deck. If at
least one of those cards has cost equal to the named
number, choose a hero you control. For each card that
matches the named number, add 1 resource to that
hero’s resource pool.”

While it is kind of sad to see Zigil Miner nerfed I think it will be good for the game overall.
Any other thought on the FAQ?
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Thomas McGranor Jr
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Two unneeded errata, and Zigil Miner getting hit way harder then it had to. Neat. Not to mention that it's game over if one of the player controlling the Dol Guldr captive loses his other heroes, but you're still in the game if the only hero you have left is Lost and Alone? And it looks like shadow cards from attacks outside of combat phase stay around. All in all, I'm very disappointed.
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bog danov
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The power of both Beravor and Zigil miner should have been obvious from the start (and was to everyone except FFG, it seems), so releasing them and then crippling them like this afterwards seems sloppy. For the record, while certainly very good, I don´t find them too powerful, at least not for solo play. And although I haven´t played the game cooperatively myself, in that mode I can´t imagine it being very difficult with some decent deckbuilding anyway, with or without those two cards.
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Jamie Riehl
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Wow.

Errata on encounter cards is one thing, but dramatic power errata like this on player cards makes a nasty situation for players who aren't closely following the faqs.

I hope, at least, they will release new prints of beravor and zigi in a future set.

As for the power change, that certainly makes sense, but I'm really not sure how I feel about them ret-conning it.

Also, note that protector of lorien has been limited to 3 times per phase.
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What is interesting about the change is that they didn't just nerf Ziggy, they substantially altered how you would want to use him. Comboing with Gazer and high cost cards was the way to go previously. Now, high cost cards may not be a good idea at all. Instead, I am going to be looking hard at uniform deck costs again in attempts to get all of the cards in a deck to cost 2 or 1 and then just draw blind. Combined with card draw it could be decent. I am not so sure this will be worth it. Still you can't ignore the power of resource acceleration.

I like the Beravor change. My UCs are suddenly going to start targeting others. But man, I was kinda hoping my Elrond Army/Armory combo would last for more than a few days! http://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/12245/building-with-el...

Oh well, back to the drawing board.
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Tony Fanchi
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I personally never thought Protector of Lorien was overpowered. Only with Beravor was it overpowered, and with her errata, the PoL errata seems unnecessary.

I have very mixed feelings about the other two errata. For one, it seems strange that it took this long for them to decide to errata Beravor. I do think it's probably a good thing for game balance that they made both of those changes, but I agree with Jamie that errata to player cards could be problematic. I guess errata are just a necessary evil with LCGs/CCGs, but I have to admit the decisions came as a surprise. It'll take some getting used to, but I think it's probably going to help the game in the long run.

None of the other rulings come as a surprise, and it's nice to finally have them official.
 
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Matthew Rooks
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I think the Zigil is basically neutered now. In order to get 2 resources, BOTH discarded cards must have the same cost. I may house rule that if one of the two cards has a cost of 2, you get 2 resources. I've been using Ziggy with Imladris in my solo secrecy deck, and still plan to do so.
 
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Matt Duckworth
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Wow.... why ever they would nerf Beravor and Zigil Miner, while leaving the real gamebreakers (Asfaloth and Steward of Gondor) unscathed is beyond me.

 
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John Farrell
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I think I'm just going to ignore those changes. Ziggy is much less powerful than Steward of Gondor for resource acceleration, and Unexpected Courage on Beravor just leads to handfuls of cards unless you happen to be using Protector of Lorien or can manage resource acceleration as well.

Is this the way FFG plans to deal with power creep? And seriously WTF, trying to change the rules printed on cards by putting something on a web site? Give us new cards at the very least, and fix all of your stupid spelling mistakes while you're at it.
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Brendon Russell
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mjd83 wrote:
Wow.... why ever they would nerf Beravor and Zigil Miner, while leaving the real gamebreakers (Asfaloth and Steward of Gondor) unscathed is beyond me.

If you take them at face value it may seem strange, but Beravor and Zigil Miner can be abused to ridiculous effect (e.g. activated multiple times per turn) if your deck is built to do so. Asfaloth and Steward are ahead of the power curve for their cost, but pretty much only do what's printed on them - at least for now! The key difference seems to be the easy access to ready characters, but not attachments.
 
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Sky Zero
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Friendless wrote:
I think I'm just going to ignore those changes. Ziggy is much less powerful than Steward of Gondor for resource acceleration, and Unexpected Courage on Beravor just leads to handfuls of cards unless you happen to be using Protector of Lorien or can manage resource acceleration as well.

Is this the way FFG plans to deal with power creep? And seriously WTF, trying to change the rules printed on cards by putting something on a web site? Give us new cards at the very least, and fix all of your stupid spelling mistakes while you're at it.


Agreed. You don't get to change clearly printed rules on cards because you feel like it FFG. I guess I might as well grab a Sharpie and write on top of the card so I can remember your new make believe rule for Ziggy and Beravor. Just dumb shake
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Matt Duckworth
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scwont wrote:
mjd83 wrote:
Wow.... why ever they would nerf Beravor and Zigil Miner, while leaving the real gamebreakers (Asfaloth and Steward of Gondor) unscathed is beyond me.

If you take them at face value it may seem strange, but Beravor and Zigil Miner can be abused to ridiculous effect (e.g. activated multiple times per turn) if your deck is built to do so. Asfaloth and Steward are ahead of the power curve for their cost, but pretty much only do what's printed on them - at least for now! The key difference seems to be the easy access to ready characters, but not attachments.


Atleast Beravor required card synergy to abuse, and Ziggy required even harder to set up card synergy to abuse. SoG and Asf both simply require spending two resources and attaching to be abused. SoG even immediately replaces the resources you spent on it as if it was 0 cost! You ever played same deck/same scenario with and then without either of these two cards and noticed the ridiculous difference? It's the difference between resources and locations mattering vs. resources and locations not mattering.

And Def of Lorien? That is another WTF? I always felt this was one of the most interestingly designed cards in the game. In a well tweaked 50 card deck, discarding to fuel PoL is painful, and enough of a restraint on it's power. Honestly, I don't know if I can think of a single time where I discarded more than 3 hand cards to this card in a turn.. because I usually don't have that many cards to spare. Really this 3x a turn limitation doesn't even change much.

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Brendon Russell
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mjd83 wrote:
"scwont"][q="mjd83"]Wow.... why ever they would nerf Beravor and Zigil Miner, while leaving the real gamebreakers (Asfaloth and Steward of Gondor) unscathed is beyond me.

If you take them at face value it may seem strange, but Beravor and Zigil Miner can be abused to ridiculous effect (e.g. activated multiple times per turn) if your deck is built to do so. Asfaloth and Steward are ahead of the power curve for their cost, but pretty much only do what's printed on them - at least for now! The key difference seems to be the easy access to ready characters, but not attachments.[/q wrote:


Atleast Beravor required card synergy to abuse, and Ziggy required even harder to set up card synergy to abuse. SoG and Asf both simply require spending two resources and attaching to be abused. SoG even immediately replaces the resources you spent on it as if it was 0 cost! You ever played same deck/same scenario with and then without either of these two cards and noticed the ridiculous difference? It's the difference between resources and locations mattering vs. resources and locations not mattering.


Don't get me wrong, I agree that both Asafloth and SoG are overpowered/undercosted and require minimal setup, and are auto-includes in the appropriate decks if you want that extra boost in power level. I don't think these changes are intended for/driven by the likes of you or I though, but the more hardcore players/deck designers who are willing and able to push the boundaries.

I think Ziggy is almost a no-brainer to abuse now though, in conjunction with Imdralis Stargazer. It'll be interesting to see if Master of the Forge makes a big impact with the ultra-powerful attachments out there, as it could make them much more reliable to get into play.

mjd83 wrote:
And Def of Lorien? That is another WTF? I always felt this was one of the most interestingly designed cards in the game. In a well tweaked 50 card deck, discarding to fuel PoL is painful, and enough of a restraint on it's power. Honestly, I don't know if I can think of a single time where I discarded more than 3 hand cards to this card in a turn.. because I usually don't have that many cards to spare. Really this 3x a turn limitation doesn't even change much.


Again, I gather this card's power level can be pushed over the top with certain decks and players. (Although, as has already been pointed out, nerfing Beravor probably solves that problem for now anyway.) Personally I rarely even include PoL my decks, since I usually can't see or take advantage of the potential of less obvious powerhouses like this one!
 
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Adam Polkinghorne
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In my mind, it just does not make any sense. I'm am familiar with companies making errata to cards but these are based on their use in tournament environments and retaining balance between different deck archetypes....but for a cooperative "at-home" game?? Am I missing some level of stakes that we are playing for?

I agree that these cards are very powerful and, for that reason, I only use them all in one of my decks, preferring to build lots of other deck themes if I am looking for more of a challenge....but I am not going to go to the effort of remembering these changes if they are not printed on the card. If they reprint these cards (for free) in a future expansion, that's fine, I will use them then but in the meantime.....
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Jamie Riehl
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I suspect that the difference between these cards and other very good but unerrata'd cards like Steward is about upper limits. Steward is, no doubt, incredibly good. It is probably better than Miner, because it takes no other deck slots or time to set up. But Steward has a firm upper limit - it can only ever lead to a deck gaining +2 resources a turn. By contrast, Miner can potentially, in combination, give >20 extra resources a turn.

What this means, answering Adam's question, is that certain space is closed off to the game designers in terms of designing tougher scenarios. A stage, for example, that requires you to pay 3 resources a turn to quest is still going to present a challenge to Steward players. But Miner can just laugh it off. What this means is that a stage with this restriction would end up reading "play Zigil Miner." I've seen this with Protector in multiple quests, particularly at Stage 3 where restrictions intended to make closing out the quest tough can just be breezed by to win in a single turn. So the reason they banned those particular cards is that it opens up design space for them which is currently effectively closed.
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John Farrell
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Maybe when the design such a scenario they can include a reprint of Ziggy in the deck and say "use the new one instead of the old one". That would be much easier on the players.
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Derek Coon
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I think they nailed Beravor and PoL, but might have gone too far with Ziggy. They might have had a hard time finding a middle ground with it. (Not that I really care since I refuse to play Spirit heroes.)

I wouldn't have minded if they'd made Northern Tracker unique, but Asfaloth on Glory is at least as bad. How come no one talks about reducing the power of Tactics cards?
 
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I welcome all three card erratas, they were long overdue: We all know that Beravor was broken, PoL wasn't that bad but it inbalanced the game because of the end game push when you discarded your whole hand full of unique doubles or other crap to rush through the last quest stage and Ziggil Miner was totally overpowered from the very start.

On the other hand they turned Ziggil Miner from one of the most abusable cards into the worst resource generating card in the game. The new ruling is in hinsight with Zigil Miner & Erebor Recordkeeper. They should have ruled Zigil Miner to give at max 2 resources if one of the card costs matches but with a limit of one per turn use instead.

Or even more elegant: Leave Beravor alone and rule that any card action that lets you draw cards or generates resources is limited to one use per turn. Voila!
 
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Steve
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Probably Unexpected Courage should be set to Unique
Northern Tracker is a Unique is nice too

Beravor's drawing skill once per turn is fair enough I guess, I like it
Limiting PoL to 3 is also okay

Zigil Miner perhaps should be discarded after flipping card for resources might be better than putting only 1 resource, or putting max 2 resources is also pretty good

but anyway, probably all these three are needed for a more balance play. Good job FFG
 
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Allan Clements
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They could have gone the game of thrones route and just said that extra card draws are limited to 3 per round.

I don't think massive resource generation was supposed to be a trait of spirit, and Zigil miner potentially being two resources (6 if you have all 3 in play) per turn is not that bad, you won't always have SoG in your deck or even draw it if you do.

I would have liked to see an errata on Will of the West though (that it is removed from play after use)
 
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Richard Morris
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Nightrain wrote:
Good job FFG
gulp
 
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Martin Smith
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Wow this is an amazingly smart FAQ from FFG ! I love it !

------

Errata to above post - should read "Wow this is a really messy hack to attempt and fix the game. I hate it".
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Andrei Ivanesei
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I dont care about the new FAQ. Unless they provide us with the *new* cards, I will play the game just like I did until now.
Whats the point in having a card that says something, but in reality I should check a website to see if what is printed on the card is the actual truth?
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Brother Leon
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zigil should be: that hero receives a number of resources equal to the number of cards in his hand which match that named number.

This is how i interpreted it before reading the intro and thought it was cool.

If these FAQ changes are so great why did FFG not put a note on the front page of their website??
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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HolyGigi wrote:
Whats the point in having a card that says something, but in reality I should check a website to see if what is printed on the card is the actual truth?


Once you've read the FAQ, you should remember the changes, especially with regard to the three player cards (Beravor, PoL and Ziggy). Only Ziggy's wording changed significantly, rest just got an extra limitation added to them.

I don't think you would've played Meccg for long if you only go with what's printed on the card. Errata happens and cards don't always get reprinted, but if you like/love a game, most likely you'll remember the changes without needing to check them constantly.
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