Ian McCarthy
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I would love to know the maximum numbers of each monster type in the conversion kit.

I have 5 GeekGold for anyone who feels like posting the numbers.
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Andrew loses (again)
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Could help speed up the old painting project, wot?
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Bane Spiders - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Beastmen - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Blood Apes - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Chaos Beasts - 2 Minions, 1 Master

"Crypt" Dragon - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Dark Priests - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Deep Elves - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Demon "Lord" - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Ferrox(i?) - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Giants - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Golems - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Hellhounds - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Ice Wyrms - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Kobolds - 6 Minions, 3 Masters (however, when you defeat a Master he splits into 2 Minion regardless of group limits, so you may need up to 6 more Minions)

Lava Beetles - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Manticores - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Medusae - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Naga - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Ogres - 1 Minion, 1 Master (Master Undying so now when it's killed replaced by a Minion regardless of group limits, so probably 1 more Minion needed.)

Razorwings - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Shades - 4 Minions, 1 Master

Skeleton Archer - 4 Minions, 1 Master (Master Undying, so probably 2 more needed.)

Sorcerer - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Trolls - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Wendigo - 2 Minions, 1 Master
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Skeleton Archer - 4 Minions, 1 Master (Master Undying, so probably 2 more needed.)

Actually only 1 more. The Master turns into 1 Minion, not 2...
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Chris J Davis
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Titeman wrote:
Skeleton Archer - 4 Minions, 1 Master (Master Undying, so probably 2 more needed.)

Actually only 1 more. The Master turns into 1 Minion, not 2...


You could actually have any number of skeletons on the board, not necessarily one more minion than the max, if the heroes ignore all the minions:

The skeletons are at the group limit. The heroes kill the master. He comes back as a minion. The OL reinforces the master, and the heroes kill him again, he comes back as another minion, etc, etc.
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Good point. So extra Kobolds, Skeletons, and Ogres...
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Jan Probst
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That raises an interesting question.

Even if abilities permit the ignoring of group limits, things would still be subject to plastic limit, restricting such chain respawn shenanigans.

For base game creatures, this is incidentally identical to the 4h group limit. For some conversion set creatures, obviously not, since D1 operated under a bigger numbers paradigm.

It's probably reasonable to assume a virtual plastic limit = 4h group limit for these creatues too?

Alternative interpretation might be, since most of such abilities *are* absent from new creatures, that they take D1 plastic limit into account and massive respawn tricks are intended.

Dunno.
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Chris J Davis
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Weltenreiter wrote:


Alternative interpretation might be, since most of such abilities *are* absent from new creatures, that they take D1 plastic limit into account and massive respawn tricks are intended.

Dunno.


If the Undying ability says that it ignores group limits, then we have to presume this until we hear otherwise.
 
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E Anderson
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While undying can break group limits, I don't see why you could spawn another master while you are above the group limit.
 
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WimpyRanger wrote:
While undying can break group limits, I don't see why you could spawn another master while you are above the group limit.


Because there would be no Master on the board, so it would not break the limit...
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Jan Probst
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Weltenreiter wrote:


Alternative interpretation might be, since most of such abilities *are* absent from new creatures, that they take D1 plastic limit into account and massive respawn tricks are intended.

Dunno.


If the Undying ability says that it ignores group limits, then we have to presume this until we hear otherwise.

I was talking about plastic limits, not group limits.
 
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Weltenreiter wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Weltenreiter wrote:


Alternative interpretation might be, since most of such abilities *are* absent from new creatures, that they take D1 plastic limit into account and massive respawn tricks are intended.

Dunno.


If the Undying ability says that it ignores group limits, then we have to presume this until we hear otherwise.

I was talking about plastic limits, not group limits.


Yes, I know. Read what I said again and maybe it will make more sense the second time.
 
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Jason Eaton
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This is missing that Sorcerers also have undying. It would be good to note the original piece count for the 1st edition games:

Skeletons 6 tan / 3 red
Sorcerers 4 tan / 2 red
Ogres 2 tan / 1 red
Kobolds 12 tan / 6 red

So I'm guessing the rules were designed with how many pieces someone owning the 1st edition would have, so I'm guessing you want 6 tan skeletons, 4 tan sorcerers, 2 tan ogres, and 12 tan kobolds.
 
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BananaForSale wrote:
This is missing that Sorcerers also have undying. It would be good to note the original piece count for the 1st edition games:

Skeletons 6 tan / 3 red
Sorcerers 4 tan / 2 red
Ogres 2 tan / 1 red
Kobolds 12 tan / 6 red

So I'm guessing the rules were designed with how many pieces someone owning the 1st edition would have, so I'm guessing you want 6 tan skeletons, 4 tan sorcerers, 2 tan ogres, and 12 tan kobolds.


I thought the Sorcerers had Sorcery and Summon Monster. Ah well, I did my best...
 
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Titeman wrote:
WimpyRanger wrote:
While undying can break group limits, I don't see why you could spawn another master while you are above the group limit.


Because there would be no Master on the board, so it would not break the limit...

It sort of would as you're already over the limit with 5 minions.
However if having 5 minions prevents you from spawning a master that kinda sucks. Probably needs some FFG faq action.

As for reaching the plastic limit I can't see that realistically ever happening unless you all cooperate to make it happen.
 
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Kelly Overholser
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I would say to ignore the plastic limit as well. If you run out of miniatures, use a reasonable substitute (coins, beads, etc) until some are killed.

Realistically, the only way that the monsters will get to be that overwhelming is if the heroes consciously ignore the minions and only kill the master. If the heroes are that willfully ignorant of their own survival enough to do something like that, I'd say the situation won't get any worse by ignoring "game balance".

For painting though, I would just paint enough to be realistic. For the skeletons and ogres, that's one more minion than the normal limit; for kobolds, I'd paint all 12 minion figures.

Moving back to the original topic, if two different monsters have the same limit for 4 heroes, do they also have the same limits for 2 and 3? And if not, what are the breakdowns for the groups that don't show up in 2E?

 
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Titeman wrote:
Bane Spiders - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Beastmen - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Blood Apes - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Chaos Beasts - 2 Minions, 1 Master

"Crypt" Dragon - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Dark Priests - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Deep Elves - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Demon "Lord" - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Ferrox(i?) - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Giants - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Golems - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Hellhounds - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Ice Wyrms - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Kobolds - 6 Minions, 3 Masters (however, when you defeat a Master he splits into 2 Minion regardless of group limits, so you may need up to 6 more Minions)

Lava Beetles - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Manticores - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Medusae - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Naga - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Ogres - 1 Minion, 1 Master (Master Undying so now when it's killed replaced by a Minion regardless of group limits, so probably 1 more Minion needed.)

Razorwings - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Shades - 4 Minions, 1 Master

Skeleton Archer - 4 Minions, 1 Master (Master Undying, so probably 2 more needed.)

Sorcerer - 3 Minions, 1 Master

Trolls - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Wendigo - 2 Minions, 1 Master


Dark Priests are just 1 minion?
 
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clarence
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Dark Priest is one of the weakest monster in conversion.

1 master and 1 minon with brown die.
Dark prayer is same as howl and Baragest is even stronger.
 
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Mark Johnson
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Dark Priest is actually 1/3.
 
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J V
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So some of the converted monsters do not have the same limits as the original game? For example, the Trolls in that list are 1Mas/1Min, so 2 total. The AoD expansion has 3 Trolls in it.
 
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Isolater wrote:
Dark Priest is actually 1/3.


Is this true? So, is it 1/3 or 1/1??
 
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Daniel B
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geki wrote:
Isolater wrote:
Dark Priest is actually 1/3.


Is this true? So, is it 1/3 or 1/1??

1/3
 
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Daniel B
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And here is the complete list of stuff you have "left over" if you have all the monsters from 1e and get the conversion kit:

Bane Spiders - 4 Minions, 2 Masters

Beastmen - 3 Minions, 2 Masters

Blood Apes - 2 Minions, 1 Master

Chaos Beasts - none

Crypt Dragon - none

Dark Priests - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Deep Elves - 1 Minion

Demon Lord - none

Ferrox - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Giants - none

Golems - 1 Minion

Hellhounds - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Ice Wyrms - 1 Minion

Kobolds - 6 Minions*, 3 Masters

Lava Beetles - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Manticores - 1 Minion

Medusae - none

Naga - none

Ogres - 1 Minion*

Razorwings - 1 Minion, 1 Master

Shades - 1 Master

Skeleton Archer - 2 Minions*, 2 Masters

Sorcerer - 1 Minion*, 1 Master

Trolls - 1 Minion

Wendigo - none


* You might want to hold on to some/all of these minions to fulfill Split/Undying.
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In other words, you have an "extra" complete set of Blood Apes, Beastmen, Bane Spiders and Kobolds (if you are willing to part from the extra minions) and two complete extra sets of Bane Spiders.
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Robert
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Deebs wrote:

... Shades - none ...



Shouldn't that be one master? The group in 2e is 4 mins/1mas - but there were 6 figs total.
 
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