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Subject: Is Goa the best auction mid/heavy euro for 2 players? rss

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Norberto Leiva
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Most folks recommend Goa for 2er but most of them rate it as best with 4. I am not sure if Goa is worthy for just 2 players, what do you think?. What is missing the game with just 2?.

Could you recommend me any other good meaty euro with auction mechanic for 2er?

Thanks in advance,
 
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Scott Nelson
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Homesteaders
Vegas Showdown
Augsburg 1520


all have working 2 player variants.
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Alan Goodrich
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Goa is excellent with just 2, and the best 2 player auction imo. But any game that uses once-around/blind auctions work pretty well with 2. I would second Homesteaders as a great 2 player auction game as well. I used to own Augsburg 1520 and found it quite lacking with 2.

While not as heavy as your looking for, probably, Peloponnes is an excellent auction game for any number of players (1-5 out of the box, and up to 7 with expansions). Palazzo is also quite good with just 2, but again, not as heavy.

Imperial & Chicago Express also have their partisans for the 2 player game. Certainly not the majority opinion, but they do work with 2, and imo are fun - they play differently than "normal" though (you really need two players with the same ability level/experience for them to be enjoyable this way).
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Rob Steward
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Phoenicia comes to mind.
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Scott Nelson
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Along the lines of the train games, Steel Driver has a workable two player variant that has been designed, and proponents enjoy it.
 
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I find that The Speicherstadt works well with two. I think the Warehouse might be a bit overpowered with that number, because whoever gets it will probably pay too little, but you can always house-rule that or simply not play with it.
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Buddha Meeple
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+1 Homesteaders
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Shane Larsen
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To answer the question in your title, no (IMO). Goa works fine with two, but the problem is that the auction round is over so quickly that I find it a bit anti-climatic.

I recommend Metropolys - It uses spacial auctioning like that found in Goa, except it doesn't use the once-around rule. You can keep bidding up to the max (13 I think). It puts more of a focus on the auctioning aspect of the game. And while Metropolys is an overall lighter game, the 2-player game is quite a bit heavier than the 3p or 4p because both players have more control over the game space.

I personally think Metropolys creates a much more intriguing 2p auction game than Goa. Check out Scott Nicholson's video. He does a good job at showing how the game feels and explaining the rules clearly.

Good luck!
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Alan Goodrich
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thedacker wrote:
To answer the question in your title, no (IMO). Goa works fine with two, but the problem is that the auction round is over so quickly that I find it a bit anti-climatic.

I recommend Metropolys - It uses spacial auctioning like that found in Goa, except it doesn't use the once-around rule. You can keep bidding up to the max (13 I think). It puts more of a focus on the auctioning aspect of the game. And while Metropolys is an overall lighter game, the 2-player game is quite a bit heavier than the 3p or 4p because both players have more control over the game space.


While I haven't played Metropolys, I find the auction in Goa to be anything but anticlimactic. Because it is once around, the pressure to value the item correctly is more intense. Either you are trying to make a bid high enough to secure the item for yourself while not paying more than you have to, or you are trying to bid high enough to force your opponent to overpay while not saddling you with a high-priced, unwanted item. (I find that not having more players to take up the burden of increasing the price makes for more tension). And at the same time, you have to account for where the money is going - to the bank (if winning your own marked item) or to your opponent (if it is his marker). Lots to think about, and lots of ways to use the geographical nature of the auction in tricky, sly ways.

Generally, I think that auctions with 2 that go around and around lack interest or meaning - either one person jumps to the max of what they are willing to pay (which basically makes it once around) or you simply go back and forth, raising bids a dollar at a time, which is predictable and rote. Even with more players, I find this type of auction fairly predictable and bland, but with 2 it gets tedious fast. Of course, ymmv.
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Shane Larsen
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cayluster wrote:
Generally, I think that auctions with 2 that go around and around lack interest or meaning...


I agree with you about round-and-round auctions for 2, but Metropolys is something entirely different than what you're thinking. In Metropolys a player has 13 buildings to start the game, numbered 1-13. If you bid, say a 5, you place your 5-level building on the space. If the other player passes, you win it and your 5 building is gone for the rest of the game--all other building previously placed in that auction round are returned to both players. So there's a lot more that goes into each decision than just "how much do I want to spend?". Also, every time the ante is raised, that player places his building in a new, adjacent space in the city. So the thought is more like "do I value any of those three possible locations enough to spend my 10-level building on it now?". What's more, both players have secret scoring objectives. So the value of certain locations are dramatized: "I don't want to spend my 8-level building here, but I think she's going for green city locations, so it might be worth it to keep her from getting another one."

It becomes more of a tactical auctioning game, and the endless considerations of valuing each property, along with the value and proper timing of each of your buildings, is brilliantly clever.
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Alan Goodrich
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thedacker wrote:
cayluster wrote:
Generally, I think that auctions with 2 that go around and around lack interest or meaning...


I agree with you about round-and-round auctions for 2, but Metropolys is something entirely different than what you're thinking. In Metropolys a player has 13 buildings to start the game, numbered 1-13. If you bid, say a 5, you place your 5-level building on the space. If the other player passes, you win it and your 5 building is gone for the rest of the game--all other building previously placed in that auction round are returned to both players. So there's a lot more that goes into each decision than just "how much do I want to spend?". Also, every time the ante is raised, that player places his building in a new, adjacent space in the city. So the thought is more like "do I value any of those three possible locations enough to spend my 10-level building on it now?". What's more, both players have secret scoring objectives. So the value of certain locations are dramatized: "I don't want to spend my 8-level building here, but I think she's going for green city locations, so it might be worth it to keep her from getting another one."

It becomes more of a tactical auctioning game, and the endless considerations of valuing each property, along with the value and proper timing of each of your buildings, is brilliantly clever.


Sounds interesting - I will have to get my hands on a copy...
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David B
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Throw in another vote for Homesteaders.
 
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Scott Nelson
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cayluster wrote:
thedacker wrote:
cayluster wrote:
Generally, I think that auctions with 2 that go around and around lack interest or meaning...


I agree with you about round-and-round auctions for 2, but Metropolys is something entirely different than what you're thinking. In Metropolys a player has 13 buildings to start the game, numbered 1-13. If you bid, say a 5, you place your 5-level building on the space. If the other player passes, you win it and your 5 building is gone for the rest of the game--all other building previously placed in that auction round are returned to both players. So there's a lot more that goes into each decision than just "how much do I want to spend?". Also, every time the ante is raised, that player places his building in a new, adjacent space in the city. So the thought is more like "do I value any of those three possible locations enough to spend my 10-level building on it now?". What's more, both players have secret scoring objectives. So the value of certain locations are dramatized: "I don't want to spend my 8-level building here, but I think she's going for green city locations, so it might be worth it to keep her from getting another one."

It becomes more of a tactical auctioning game, and the endless considerations of valuing each property, along with the value and proper timing of each of your buildings, is brilliantly clever.


Sounds interesting - I will have to get my hands on a copy...



I never thought Metropolys as a meaty euro. Was rather light in my games.
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Shane Larsen
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ropearoni4 wrote:
I never thought Metropolys as a meaty euro. Was rather light in my games.


As I mentioned in my first post, it is lighter than Goa. But the 2-player game becomes a much deeper, brain-burning experience. I put it in the easy-to-teach, hard-to-master category when played with two.
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Scott Nelson
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thedacker wrote:
ropearoni4 wrote:
I never thought Metropolys as a meaty euro. Was rather light in my games.


As I mentioned in my first post, it is lighter than Goa. But the 2-player game becomes a much deeper, brain-burning experience. I put it in the easy-to-teach, hard-to-master category when played with two.


I think its lack of depth is because it is an abstract game with a thin theme layer to hold it together. So it may be brain burning, but it is not unlike a good Gipf game in that regards when played with 2.

Key Harvest on the other hand I forgot about, does have brain burning goodness, an auction element, a good theme, and rather dry comparably. It is hard to get a good 2-player auction game and sweat over each play. Keyharvest has some keen moves throughout, but for some reason, it feels really dry.


No love for Augsburg 1520? It has a tech track like GOA, has a very unopen-ended bidding (hard to go around twice because number of cards bidded must go up, and you might not even win when you do so).


Bridge Troll is do-able with the 2-player variant (there are 2 of them iirc - one is mine).
 
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