Recommend
101 
 Thumb up
 Hide
252 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [11] | 

Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Reviews

Subject: A first play (and probably last) first (and probably last) impression rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Pedro Silva
Portugal
Matosinhos
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Intro

I usually don't think about writing a review of a game after just one play. However, this was not meant to be a review but rather the comment on my first play of the game on the New To You July 2012 => Best new boardgame geeklist.
It got a bit longish and I decided it could be useful as a review to others and so have made an integral copy here. Hope you find it so.

----------

Well... Only one new game to me this month.

Mage Knight Board Game has been taking BGG by storm and it's hard for me to see why apart from a strange, and to me unjustifiable, state of grace the designer has been enjoying around here.

This game is currently ranked 10th on the Strategy Games but there really is no strategy to speak of. Which isn't a problem in this case, really. It's an adventure game and as is typical and logical in such, you don't know what you'll find in your adventures and, therefore, can't plan a strategy from the start.

Of course the differentiated ranks on BGG are misleading. After all they are just filtered results from a single rank value so a highly thematic game (which this seems to be in spite of the fact that I know next to nothing about the theme) that is marked as a strategy game (which this game should not be) will be high on both ranks.

So, no strategy.

Then there is the length. This game took us (3 players) about six hours to complete not including explanation and pauses. I was the only one playing for the first time but all of us are experienced gamers. The explanation took about an hour.

It's too long for what it is.

I started great killing some orcs and healing two wounds immediately after. But was it my skill that allowed that? Not really. I think any of us could have done the move if they had the same hand as me. It was mostly a lucky draw early on. Later in the game I'd find myself with almost nothing productive to do or just a choice between suboptimal moves.
It's a succession of puzzles. What is the best move, this turn, with this hand? There is little preparation or concern with the next move. Sometimes you just do something to reduce your hand hoping to get a better one next turn. When you are getting close to the end of your deck you just do the best possible for that turn and that's it. Not much planning ahead.
And these puzzles are mostly repetitive as the aim changes little from turn to turn. Move, kill monster if possible. Move, kill monster if possible. Repeat... for six hours.

I've been growing suspicious of games that list 1-X players on the board. Either the single player variant is just boring or the game is multi-player solitaire. MK is the latter.
We played a Full Conquest scenario of MK and supposedly this is the way in which players might feel more inclined to attack each other. Problem is that there is little incentive to do so. The potential gain is very low. I did it once mostly because I had nothing better to do and I wanted to check how the game worked. My opponent had all his units spent even though he had a much bigger hand of cards so I decided to give it a go. It didn't go too badly for either of just. In the end, my meagre gain was making it hard for him to get into a city...
Aside from this, the game was mostly played by each player separately.

Not much interaction, then.

I read an article some time ago that stated that the word "elegant" had no defined meaning in game design. I disagree and I think MK is the perfect example to prove the opposite in a "reduction to absurd" kind of way...
MK is an example of inelegant game design. It's full of unnecessary rules and steps and fiddly little things that serve no purpose other than adding variables to the turn-by-turn puzzle.

Why 3 different kinds of attack/block and combat phases? Because combat would be too easy to resolve otherwise. It's not that your tactical skill is more or less challenged by this it's just that more variables mean more difficulty in drawing the proper cards to work around them.

Why 10 different kinds of terrain where two serve exactly the same purpose (you can't move there) and of the remaining 6 only two change values from night to day phases? I know there are cards with special powers that allow you to bend this a bit, but still I feel you did not need so many.
And so on...

Cumbersome or fiddly play, too.

After the second day of game-time it was pretty obvious who would win the game, too.
So why did we play to the finish?
In part because I insisted we did. I wanted to see what the game could provide. I wanted to give it a chance to win me over.
It did provide for a couple of interesting or funny moments after that. I did burn down a monastery and that is always something to look forward to, right?

Actually during the explanation of the "thumbs" track I thought "Cool. We can play as good or evil!". Not so, I fear. Playing as evil only makes it harder for you... Wouldn't it be great having some players playing for good and others for evil?
I digress, though...

So it has a serious runaway leader problem. The players characters gain abilities throughout the game in an accelerating way so when a player starts getting more powerful, he just keeps gaining momentum and there is little to nothing the others can do about it.

But is this just from superior play? Not just, no.
There's a rather daunting amount of luck involved in that. For instance when you draw artefact cards (which can be quite powerful) you may end up, like me, drawing two similar ones (a red ring or a white ring) that aren't even related to the best colour for you (mine would be green or red), whilst other draw shiny and powerful weapons-of-mass-destruction-like stuff.
The timing in which advanced action cards or spells become available can also be pretty important and that, again, is a random factor that can hardly be controlled.

It's quite random too.

The components are brilliant, though. I think the best word for them is luxurious. Like luxury items, they give you a certain kind of pleasure a sense of value.

Unfortunately, like luxury items, they also provide for drawbacks.
The city-clix things are an absurdity.
I suppose they had to include some clixythingamaoggy because of the franchise and the company behind the game but perhaps it would have been better doing it in something else, maybe some special monsters or even the heroes...

Maybe it's my ageing eyesight but it's hard as hell to read the clixy-tiny-symbols-with-easily-confused-colours on the cities. And they serve no purpose that could not have been better implemented with something as simple as a card.
The font can be a bit too small or similarly coloured to the background in some cards, but not too much of a problem.
The rest is good stuff. The cardboard is excellent, the art is good enough, the dice, though tiny, are easily readable with different symbols for each colour/face. Nice insert too.

Good components if a bit over-produced at times.

Somehow I feel this opinion might be a bit too harsh. I've only played once and I know there are several different ways to play the game so I might be having an unfair view.
I'm expecting something from Mr Chvátil that will someday show me why he is so revered by so many here but still, this isn't it. I've tried several of his games and the only one that has yet shown any promise and been more than mostly a gimmick is TtA.

Do I feel like I should play this again to give it a better chance, though?
Not really. Because after this play I think this game's best experience probably comes in solitaire play. For solo play I think this might be good. I don't play solo much, though.

For multi-player I know of at least one game out there that offers more sense of adventure and story-telling, more interaction, more thematic integration, a similar amount of drama or swings in fortune and, most importantly, more fun in a shorter time-frame.
So, if someone suggests this again my reaction will probably be: "Can't we play Merchants & Marauders instead? Please?"

In the end, a thumbsdown.

Sorry about the wall of text... I guess writing this was more fun than playing the game!
Perhaps I should have posted this as a review?

----------
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Durst
United States
Tampa
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh this should be good. Prepare flame shields now else you get burned.

I'll just leave with this. This game really does take several plays to understand the strategy and tactics to it.
49 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Wood
United States
Darien
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I support your review. I have not played the game, but reading the rules and watching the videos, I was left with the impression that you got from playing the game.

That being said, prepare for the sh*tstorm of die-hard fans telling you you're wrong.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Maloof

Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
msg tools
mbmb
Wario83 wrote:
I'll just leave with this. This game really does take several plays to understand the strategy and tactics to it.

Yes, this. As you grow to understand your deck better, you start to learn how to plan ahead, and to work with your future draws rather than just writing off the current hand as good luck / bad luck. But it does take a while.
19 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have the opposite view of this game and find it very unique and enjoyable. Your complaints aren't unfounded though and I'm not going to argue or disparage your opinion, it's certainly valid.

Some points to consider though:

-You should have played the intro scenario and saved full conquest for after you were experienced. That would have cut down on playtime a ton. Our 3 player intro game took 2 hours and 3 player Cooperative Full Conquest took 3 hours (we barely failed). Those were our first and second games.

-I'm a huge Merchants and Marauders fan as well, but I don't see how that has more variety than Mage Knight. You either Merchant Raid or Buy/Sell Merchant goods every turn. When you buy Merchant Goods, you're relying completely on luck - much more so than in MK. You have to get a lucky draw of multiple goods that are also in demand nearby. Ship to Ship combat is more enjoyable in M&M but not by a ton. I actually feel M&M gets stale slightly quicker than Mage Knight. That's just my opinion though.

-For me, the variety in Movement types and variety in types of attack add complexity for the sake of depth - not for the sake of just complexity. Many of the cards have multi-uses, can be powered by mana or not, and every card can be played sideways. This gives so much flexibility and choice that you have to optimally figure out this puzzle to make the most of what you have. If you removed multiple movement types and attack types - you'd be figuring out a 3 piece puzzle instead of a 1000 piece puzzle. It does add more complexity and subsequently time though.
47 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Silva
Portugal
Matosinhos
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wario83 wrote:
Oh this should be good. Prepare flame shields now else you get burned.

I'll just leave with this. This game really does take several plays to understand the strategy and tactics to it.




I'm ready for the flames...

I did get the tactics part quite clear and quickly. It really isn't very hard. As for strategy, I don't think there's any. Maybe you make a choice at the start to focus on specific coloured action cards/spells? Not much of a strategic decision... Especially given that the character's specific action card seems to indicate a particular tendency right off the bat.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mallgur wrote:
Wario83 wrote:
Oh this should be good. Prepare flame shields now else you get burned.

I'll just leave with this. This game really does take several plays to understand the strategy and tactics to it.




I'm ready for the flames...

I did get the tactics part quite clear and quickly. It really isn't very hard. As for strategy, I don't think there's any. Maybe you make a choice at the start to focus on specific coloured action cards/spells? Not much of a strategic decision... Especially given that the character's specific action card seems to indicate a particular tendency right off the bat.


I think you're right, there's no real strategy you adopt going into the game. It's certainly a more tactical game.

However, I do think you make strategic choices as you analyze what you want to do this turn in order to setup your next turn or two (I'm going to hit up that village to recruit before storming the keep adjacent to it. Besides just moving this turn I should try to get some XP so I'll go a slightly longer route to kill that Marauding Orc along the way. Just need to make sure I save my Follower to heal afterwards). If you're planning moves over multiple rounds, there's definitely strategy there.

There's also strategy in knowing what cards are in your deck and knowing what cards are coming up. Planning a move or two ahead in this game is huge.
25 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
flag msg tools
The statement below is false.
badge
The statement above is correct.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's sometimes awesome to write stuff off your chest

In all honesty, I'm somewhat amazed and positively surprised by how well this game does on BGG. Games I love traditionally don't
16 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek McKay
Azerbaijan
APO
msg tools
badge
Is it my turn? Sorry, I wasn't paying attention.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Myoman wrote:
That being said, prepare for the sh*tstorm of die-hard fans telling you you're wrong.


...and a few smug ones who always think that they are right, and are being SO clever in their responses.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Durst
United States
Tampa
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From reading all the first player reviews on this forum I've found the progression of opinion changes from play to play. This game requires a good knowledge of the cards in your deck and possible cards available in the adv actions and spell decks (and monsters) to plan effectively. Have I used all of my fight cards for this round? Do I have any influence cards left so that I can hire in this village? What are the possible monsters that can show up in this den and can I beat them with what I have? I don't blame new players for not seeing how they can optimize their play; they barely know the cards in their deck.

I don't disagree completely with the OP points but again, multiple plays starting with the recon scenario first, then the blitz conquest (is more forgiving and faster leveling then regular conquest) is the best way to learn. Of course if this type of game is not your fancy, don't force it. No hard feelings for that.
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmb
Mallgur wrote:
Mage Knight: Board Game has been taking BGG by storm and it's hard for me to see why apart from a strange, and to me unjustifiable, state of grace the designer has been enjoying around here.

I might just stop reading reviews that assign an excellent reception of a game on BGG to fans of its designer.

It's a hint that the reviewer hasn't really thought about what they're writing.

Hmmm... on the other hand, the "blind designer love" theory of board game reception would explain the insane popularity of, say, Merkator. For Vlaada, of course, all you crazy fanboys scream out your favorite here: Pictomania, Sneaks & Snitches, Travel Blog!! Remember when those were just blowing up the charts last year? He sure does make me swoon.

18 
 Thumb up
0.10
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Silva
Portugal
Matosinhos
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
charlest wrote:
I have the opposite view of this game and find it very unique and enjoyable. Your complaints aren't unfounded though and I'm not going to argue or disparage your opinion, it's certainly valid.


Thanks for the polite reply.
Interesting points...

Quote:
-You should have played the intro scenario and saved full conquest for after you were experienced.


Don't think it would have made much difference. Although I had my moments of AP, I wasn't the slowest player by any means and both the other two players had previous experience. Maybe co-op is faster. We went for the competitive and so we pretty much wandered off each in his own direction which probable leads to more diverse encounters. I suppose in co-op you frequently face the same monster/group in succession and that could help.

Quote:
-I'm a huge Merchants and Marauders fan as well, but I don't see how that has more variety than Mage Knight.


Never said it had. It is probably the same in that respect but, to my taste, is superior in other aspects.

Quote:
When you buy Merchant Goods, you're relying completely on luck - much more so than in MK.


I disagree. You get several cards in a draw (5?) in M&M and then you may exchange some of them so you have a much better chance to do well than drawing just two as it happens with artefacts in MK. You are relying on luck in both cases, true.
Both games are very random. I just think, prefer rather, that such dependence on luck isn't spread over so much time. Even M&M is a bit off in that aspect.

Quote:
-For me, the variety in Movement types and variety in types of attack add complexity for the sake of depth - not for the sake of just complexity.


My point is that the variety is mostly illusory.
You have 10 different terrain types.
Two are the same (forbidden) for most of the game for most players, maybe even for all of them all of the time unless someone acquires an ability to bend the rules, which, given the number of cards probably isn't very frequent.
That leaves 8.
Then the movement cost value spreads between 2 and 5, IIRC. So 4 different values, of which two switch between night and day.
So, 5 different terrain types (4+forbidden) would have sufficed providing a simpler, more elegant system.
But the terrain is just an example. I think the game has a lot of added fluff in other areas too.

Quote:
Many of the cards have multi-uses, can be powered by mana or not, and every card can be played sideways. This gives so much flexibility and choice that you have to optimally figure out this puzzle to make the most of what you have.


Exactly. And the game pretty much boils down to that. That's its most interesting feature. Not enough for 6, 5, 4 or even 3 hours if you ask me.

Quote:
If you removed multiple movement types and attack types - you'd be figuring out a 3 piece puzzle instead of a 1000 piece puzzle. It does add more complexity and subsequently time though.


Yes. Just what I said. Though the proportion seems a bit distorted there...
But does that complexity translate to a more adventurous feeling? Does it provide for better opportunities to develop a tactic that is superior to your opponents? Does it make for more challenging decisions?
I think not. Puzzles don't do that. Games do.

I can see how others might enjoy this, I do. I can even see how it might be an interesting solitaire, much like a Rogue type computer game, maybe even cooperative game for some. Just not for me.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Grant
United States
Washington
DC
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pedro, I'm not going to try to talk you out of your opinion of the game. However, I do want to say that reviewing a game after a single play is of limited value, for both you and the reader. Since I've already made a strenuous argument for that principle elsewhere, I'll just link the blog post and podcast that contains my argument:

http://ivebeendiced.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-i-dont-review-g...
http://bit.ly/N7VlCG

Mage Knight is taking on a hard problem, trying to make a dungeon crawl (or wilderness crawl) game into something simpler than an RPG. Whether or not you think Mage Knight did a good job of it, I think it's fair to say that a lot of games have struggled with this challenge. Descent, for example, is not as short as many people might like, and it mirrors enough familiar RPG mechanics that one might fairly ask, "So why not play an RPG like D&D instead?" The official D&D games, Ravenloft/Ashardalon/Drizzt, are too simplified for some people who are looking for an experience like a dungeon crawl RPG, without as much overhead. Another podcast episode, for what it's worth, on the quest for the magic "dungeon crawl in a box" formula:

http://bit.ly/MAPC9P
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlie Theel
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mallgur wrote:
I can see how others might enjoy this, I do. I can even see how it might be an interesting solitaire, much like a Rogue type computer game, maybe even cooperative game for some. Just not for me.


Definitely. I see where you're coming from and certainly think your review is useful as others will agree with you. While I think there's more depth in this game than a single play will reveal, I don't think multiple plays will change your viewpoint much (maybe just slightly) - so I don't have a problem with a negative review such as this with only 1 play.

While I love the game I do find it slightly tedious at times and especially prone to analysis paralysis. I also don't think I'll ever try Full Conquest with 4 players as the length will be prohibitive for me.

I think why it found such success here on BGG is due to the depth. There's a lot of game here and it all hangs together pretty well. Depth and replayability is priced at a premium on the geek.

I do agree with those saying that Vlaada's name had little to do with its success. I'm a Vladaa fan in general (Space Alert is fantastic) but I'm not wildly in love with Dungeon Lords/Pets and find those kind of meh. I think Mage Knight stands on its own regardless of designer.
6 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ido Abelman
Israel
Hod Hasharon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
*grabs popcorn*
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeff morales
United States
Near Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
Lets Eat!
badge
I also live
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mallgur wrote:
Wario83 wrote:
Oh this should be good. Prepare flame shields now else you get burned.

I'll just leave with this. This game really does take several plays to understand the strategy and tactics to it.




I'm ready for the flames...

I did get the tactics part quite clear and quickly. It really isn't very hard. As for strategy, I don't think there's any. Maybe you make a choice at the start to focus on specific coloured action cards/spells? Not much of a strategic decision... Especially given that the character's specific action card seems to indicate a particular tendency right off the bat.


I agree with you. MageKnight is not a strategy game from the strict definition of the word strategy. It is a tactical game though and through and I can see how this would frustrate people that are looking to achieve their goals by implementing an overall strategy and supplementing it with prudent tactical play.

Although I have not played Through the Ages, most of Vlaada's design are tactical in nature. He prefers to design games in a way that forces you to actively participate by keeping you on your toes.

In most modern Euro style games, you are building your points engine and for the most part, if your strategy is sound, the engine hums along with little problem. The player with the best oiled machine usually wins. Over-simply, if you tend to upkeep and keep upgrading the parts that make the machine better, you will do well with little stress. Your biggest decisions are whether or not a certain move nets you more points.

In Vlaada's designs, this is not the case. The engine you are building has faulty parts, leaks, bad wiring, and the inspectors are coming at noon! You don't just play Vlaada's games, they bite back. You interact with the game and are rewarded/punished accordingly.

I like to use this analogy when I talk to people about Vlaada's designs:

Imagine playing with Legos. If the Legos were designed by Uwe Rosenberg, then the legos will all fit together nicely. You would be able to substitute some legos for another by some predefined exchange rate. There are nicer legos than others and everyone pulls from the same bucket of legos, but for the most part, everyone can get a nice lego if they plan for it. In the end, everyone holds up their lego creation to a panel of judges who hold up scores. The person with the most points wins.

Now, if Vlaada designed the game... The legos will be from different manufacturers. Some fit, some dont. They are of different sizes and there is no way to substitute one lego for another. In addition, you are playing the game outside in a snow storm where your legos are being blown all over the place. Furthermore, its so cold you can barely feel your fingers. Did I mention that there is also no electricity and the only way to see is to use a hand cranked generator to power the substandard flood lights? At predetermined intervals, judges will come by and assess how you are doing. If they like your design, they reward you with a bowl of gruel. If they don't, then they kick in your privates and move on, laughing maniacally. In the end, everyone holds up their creation and violently smashes it into the ground. Then you score your creation based on what parts are still left. The person with the most points wins.

You can decide for yourself which design appeals to you, but its no surprise to me why Vlaada fans are so crazy about his designs (kind of like how people bond over mud runs).
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Alameda
California
flag msg tools
...do not calle up That which you cannot put downe; either from dead saltes or out of ye Spheres beyond.
badge
Wicked Lich of the West
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is what I got out of the original post:

A person learns and plays a complex game at one of its most expansive levels with the maximum number of people, which makes the game take the longest time to play with the most time lags between turns and then writes a negative review.
48 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mallgur wrote:
Mage Knight Board Game has been taking BGG by storm and it's hard for me to see why apart from a strange, and to me unjustifiable, state of grace the designer has been enjoying around here.


The answer to your question is easy---it's because different people like different things. A wave of negative reviews of the form, "This game is highly rated but it sucks, therefore all of the people who like it must be misguided fanboys," has been taking BGG by storm lately, and it's hard for me to see why, apart from the fact that some people, like you, seem simply unable to conceieve of the possibility that other people like different things than they do.

For example, I like the fact that different situations in MKBG have similar but slightly different rules. I think it makes the game more interesting, there are various small details that you do need to keep in mind and that affect the game in different ways. If you don't like it, there's no reason you should. But to assume that this is something that everyone will dislike, well, this is the fallacy of central position. You assume that everyone is just like you. But they aren't.

I think you aren't very good at playing this game (as one would expect after one play) and it shows. I think your idea that the choices are all simple and straightforward and that you never have to choose what to do early in the game based on how it is going to affect things later on is just wrong. I think that on your first play it's obviously impossible to take future considerations into account, because you don't even know yet how the game is going to play out, but if you got better at the game you would have more decisions to make. I think an experienced player would clobber you and demonstrate that it's not all luck. But I also think there's no reason for you to ever find out. It's not a game for you. You just have no need to be confused about why other people rate it highly. It's because they like different things than you do.
67 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ikiru wrote:


I like to use this analogy when I talk to people about Vlaada's designs:



Love this. Stealing it.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Buddha Meeple
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
“It is a civilizational wake-up call. A powerful message—spoken in the language of fires, floods, droughts, and extinctions—telling us that we need an entirely new economic model and a new way of sharing this planet.” ― Naomi Klein
badge
“Climate change has never received the crisis treatment from our leaders, despite the fact that it carries the risk of destroying lives on a vastly greater scale than collapsed banks or collapsed buildings.” ― Naomi Klein
Avatar
mb
IMHO Mage Knight is love-or-hate game.
While being great game, and different approach to adventure games, it has flaws - some of them mentioned in the review. Some people decide they are not important for them and have great time playing MK. For some they are repulsive and don't let to enjoy game at all.

I wish Mage Knight has been released by a different company (I have two specific in mind), with greater attention put on accessibility (really small rule tweaks) and component quality - then, maybe it wouldn't gather extreme opinions.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wonder how the OP explains the fact that, if the game is mostly luck-based, how do players consistently improve over time? Does a player's luck increase each time they play?
24 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Rupp
United States
Marion
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
First off, I hate it when someone does a negative review and everyone jumps on the guy because they're fans of the game. However, I think this review deserves a response because I don't think it's very fair. I'll leave it at this....

Reviewing a complex game such as Mage Knight after a single play doesn't do it justice. Before you fully understand the game, you will think it's all about "playing the hand you were dealt" instead of using actual strategy. After you understand the game (which takes 4-5 plays AT MINIMUM) you can start to work on the strategy required to be a good player at this game.

The key thing to remember in regards to strategy is that your deck is limited each day so even if what you draw is random, the composition of it is not. A lot of the strategy comes with building your deck and also how you play it. For example, near the end of the day you will know what cards you have yet to draw and use this information to do some amazing things (such as taking cities in a single turn) near the end of the day. To say Mage Knight lacks strategy just shows that you have yet to discover the game.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
godunow wrote:
I wish Mage Knight has been released by a different company (I have two specific in mind), with greater attention put on accessibility (really small rule tweaks) and component quality - then, maybe it wouldn't gather extreme opinions.


I think it's great that there are games that are less accessible and generate extreme opinions. Extreme like and extreme dislike are two sides of the game coin. I'd much rather see more games that half of players love and half of players dislike, than games that have any possible rough edges sanded off so that they are completely inoffensive to anyone. Because the cost of that is that you take away a lot of what people loved about it.
33 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mateo jurasic
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
hmm, its rare i disagree with just about every point in a review, but I guess I can't expect more from a review after the author's first and only play which fails to understand any aspect of the game.

for example here's an incorrect point: playing evil and doing things that drops reputation only makes the game harder...
Doing the evil thing gives you IMMEDIATE benefits, and then punishes you in other delayed ways. Threaten the town to get the ally, but later on towns will hate you more. Attack the monastery and burn it down to get a powerful relic, but suffer the consequences... How was this missed?

but whats the point of criticizing the review, when they have already chosen to discount all future "flames" ie disagreements.

10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Silva
Portugal
Matosinhos
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kingdaddy wrote:
Pedro, I'm not going to try to talk you out of your opinion of the game.


Hehe... Thanks for that. It probably would be a futile effort anyway.
Thanks for taking the time to read it and the reply too.

Quote:
However, I do want to say that reviewing a game after a single play is of limited value, for both you and the reader.


I agree. Hence my Intro...
I normally only review games after repeated plays.
However, this is clearly marked as a first impression because that's what it started as for the GL mentioned. I think that for a game that lasts such a long time as this it may be useful for other to get have some idea how others felt when they played it for the first. If they are willing to try it for themselves al least they'll have an idea of some aspects to look out for.

Quote:
Whether or not you think Mage Knight did a good job of it, I think it's fair to say that a lot of games have struggled with this challenge.


It's fair, but doesn't make any difference.
I've looked at UndeadViking's video review of Descent 2nd edition and it seems to me that FFG is headed on the right direction. Simplify without removing decision making for the players. I still don't think it might be a game for me, as I'm not really hungry for dungeon crawler, but it looks closer to what I might enjoy in that field.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [11] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.