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Survive: Escape from Atlantis!» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules change in Anniversary Edition? rss

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Björn Book
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In the Stronghold 2010 edition of Survive the rules state the following concerning the defensive whale-tile:

"When another player moves a Whale into a sea space occupied by a Boat that you control ..."

But in the 30th Anniversary Edition the rules state:

"When another player moves a Whale into a sea space occupied by one of your Ships ..."

The question is, what is meant by the new wording "your Ship"? I find it a bit ambigous. Is it still referring to a Ship that I control, or is it now referring to any Ship that I have an explorer on? It makes a huge difference as to who is allowed to play the defensive tile. Can only the controller play the tile, or anyone with an explorer on the ship in question?

What do you think? Who can play the tile?
1. Only the controller. (No rules change. The new rules unfortunately used a wording that was less clear than before.)
2. Any player with an explorer on the ship. (Deliberate rules change.)
 
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Rob Robinson
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I take it as the player who has the majority. If more than one person has the same number of survivors on board the ship, then those players are equally in control.

It can be read any way though, so an official answer would be nice.
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Dave Riedy
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I think zombiegod has it.

It's weird that they call them "ships" though. I've always thought of them, and they've always looked like rowboats.
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John "Omega" Williams
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The change from you control, to your ships indicates a shift from boats you have a majority on, to now boats you have a person on.

This makes the tile more useful.
 
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Björn Book
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Okay, so zombiegod is leaning towards "no change of rules" while Omega2064 is leaning towards "a change of rules".

I agree with Omega2064 that the change in wording does indicate a shift, but is it deliberate or a mistake?

An official ruling, anyone?
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Rob Robinson
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Omega2064 wrote:
The change from you control, to your ships indicates a shift from boats you have a majority on, to now boats you have a person on.

This makes the tile more useful.


If I have a ship with two people on board, and someone else has one person on board that ship. who does the ship belong to? Me.

[edit]
Edited from 4 players per ship to 3.
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Gar Per
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zombiegod wrote:
Omega2064 wrote:
The change from you control, to your ships indicates a shift from boats you have a majority on, to now boats you have a person on.

This makes the tile more useful.


If I have a ship with three people on board, and someone else has one person on board that ship. who does the ship belong to? Me.


Other than the fact that this is not possible within the game because ships may only contain 3 people.
 
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Adam D.
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Well, the 3 to 1 thing was a teensy bit pedantic, but frankly, I think you could easily argue this either way.
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Seth Pinter
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I've always played that you can play a defensive tile whenever it is going to directly affect you.

Who says a single guy on someone else's boat can't carry a harpoon gun?

Also, playing that way makes it consistent with the shark defense tile since no one can own a section of the water.
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Gar Per
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TheCollector wrote:
Well, the 3 to 1 thing was a teensy bit pedantic, but frankly, I think you could easily argue this either way.


Yes, it was. I should have just kept that remark in my head.

The point I should have stuck to is that the use of "your" ship doesn't necessarily imply control or even ownership, so clarifying the meaning of ship control is irrelevant. Every time I've taken a cruise, I've referred to the ship we were on as "my ship" or "our ship", and people have asked "what was your ship like?" We neither owned it, nor did my party make up the majority of people on the ship, but the possessive terms were still used to describe it.
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Jeff Dunford
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It would have been trivial for Stronghold to copy & paste the 2010 rule into the 30th edition manual. Thus, I think the change was intentional. And it makes thematic sense that everyone on board a life boat would look to each other and say "Does anybody have a 'get out of whale free' card?" I don't think you should need to be in control of the boat to save the boat your meeple is on.

("We've taken a vote and we've decided not to move in the direction that a minority wants to move in" seems more reasonable thematically than "We've taken a vote and we don't want a minority to save our boat.")
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Stephen Buonocore
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Here is an official ruling, after discussing with the designer:

Quote:
I would say if a person in a boat/ship is under attack by a whale, he can defend himself by 'harpooning a whale'. The fact that he may be in the minority in a boat in the minority is irrelevant. So, who controls the boat is of no consequence.

Bottom line is, if it makes sense then it's correct.

Put another way, you said, "The rules suggest that, as long as you have a person in the boat, you can stop the Whale." I agree, because the person in the boat is protecting himself. The fact that someone else in the boat may also be protected is their good fortune.

Given the amount of grief in the game, it's good to have the possibility of good luck!


Thanks,
Stephen M. Buonocore
Stronghold Games LLC
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Björn Book
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Thank you for the official ruling. Greatly appreciate it. (It was also the ruling I was hoping for since I agree with the designer that it is the more thematically sound one.)
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Scott Wheelock
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Avalanche Master wrote:
"If I'm in control of this frickin' ship, we're not going within harpooning distance of that frickin' whale unless I frickin' say so."


Which is ridiculous, since the whale is happy to smash the boat, no matter who's in control. "I'm in control of this boat, and I say blub blub blub!"
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