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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Widow Tarha re-roll? rss

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Scott Sanders
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Does Widow Tarha's re-roll ability apply to the reanimate attacks as well?
 
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Scott Lewis
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kryth wrote:
Does Widow Tarha's re-roll ability apply to the reanimate attacks as well?

I think there's a split on whether it does. Personally, I say "no", as from what I can tell, on Hero cards when it refers to "you", it's referring specifically to things that only apply to that hero directly.
 
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Lothar Neu
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If you don't allow it Necromancer would be a bad class choice for the hero.

You can only use the ability once, so it isn't that much of a deal in my opinion.

You should also refer to the controller of the hero.
And in that case every roll would count.

Otherwise the text should have been When Widow Tarha attacks... or something like that.
 
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Scott Lewis
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KingLz wrote:
If you don't allow it Necromancer would be a bad class choice for the hero.

I disagree. Widow Tarha is a Necromancer in the campaign I'm doing with my brother, and she's kicking butt, especially now that the Reanimate is upgraded. I don't think the class needs any more power.

Using "you" in that sense would also mean Leoric's ability works to affect all monsters within 3 spaces of BOTH figures, and several abilities of the Conversion Kit heroes use "you" that I think would be too strong if it also applies to familiars.

For example, Zyla can ignore terrain and monsters when moving; it uses "you"? Does that mean it also applies to the Reanimate? IE, just because Zyla can fly, her skeleton warrior flies, too?

While "you" does sometimes refer to the player, I maintain that even in that context it's meant to only apply to the player acting on behalf of that specific hero, not the familiars.
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Lothar Neu
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sigmazero13 wrote:
KingLz wrote:
If you don't allow it Necromancer would be a bad class choice for the hero.

I disagree. Widow Tarha is a Necromancer in the campaign I'm doing with my brother, and she's kicking butt, especially now that the Reanimate is upgraded. I don't think the class needs any more power.

Using "you" in that sense would also mean Leoric's ability works to affect all monsters within 3 spaces of BOTH figures, and several abilities of the Conversion Kit heroes use "you" that I think would be too strong if it also applies to familiars.

For example, Zyla can ignore terrain and monsters when moving; it uses "you"? Does that mean it also applies to the Reanimate? IE, just because Zyla can fly, her skeleton warrior flies, too?

While "you" does sometimes refer to the player, I maintain that even in that context it's meant to only apply to the player acting on behalf of that specific hero, not the familiars.


Well considering this you really have a point here.
Now I would also agree to not allow her to use the ability on the reanimate.
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Chris Ferejohn
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Doesn't it say any time you roll the dice to attack? You are rolling the dice. I say it does work for the Reanimate.
 
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Scott Lewis
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cferejohn wrote:
Doesn't it say any time you roll the dice to attack? You are rolling the dice. I say it does work for the Reanimate.

See my comments above; I maintain that when it is referring to "you" the player, it only refers to "you" the player in the context of that hero only.

Otherwise, if you were playing the Hero player controlling multiple heroes, that same interpretation could extend to apply to any of the heroes the player is controlling, since "you" are rolling the dice for all the heroes.

There are also abilities that say "when you attack...". The player doesn't attack, the heroes do (not physically the plastic, of course, but the character). As another example, even in the "Raise Dead" card, "you" is used to refer to both the player and the character, depending on the sentence; the hero character doesn't "remove tokens", the player does, but the "adjacent to you" obviously applies to the character.

To me, the interchangable nature of "you" in the various abilities strongly implies that it means the player/character together, and the Reanimate is a separate character and thus forms a separate player/character combination (even if linked by when the familiar can activate). IE, in terms of gameplay, each individual character (hero, familiar, monster, etc) is a separate avatar of "you", and the "you" in each instance only applies to that avatar or to your acting as an agent for that avatar, and never extends to other avatars, even if controlled by the same agent player.

It's possible I'm wrong, but in the absence of an official ruling stating otherwise, I do not believe that the Reanimate (or any familiar) get any benefits that apply to "you".
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Andrew loses (again)
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My interpretation of the rules was that the reanimate activates during the necromancer's turn, and so the reroll applies.
 
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Joe Rickard
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I could see the official ruling go either way, but I tend to agree with Scott. I am 100% positive that all of the hero abilities for the mage archetype are not intended to be used by the reanimate so it would be kind of annoying if this one did.

 
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Scott Sanders
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You might be able to determine who likes to play the hero's and who likes to play overlord by reading this thread.
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Scott Lewis
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Another couple reasons I'm more convinced the Reanimate doesn't count as "you":

Vampiric Blood wrote:
Your Reanimate adds 1 additional yellow power die to its attack pool. Each time you or your Reanimate defeats a monster, you recover 1 fatigue.


If "you" applied to the Reanimate also, why would this ability need to specify the Reanimate separately?


Dying Command wrote:
When you or your Reanimate defeats a monster, exhaust this card to test Knowledge. If you fail, recover 1 fatigue. If you pass, return that monster to the map....


Same thing as above. The later "you"s refer to the hero since the hero is the one testing the attribute regardless, but you OR "your Reanimate" can trigger it.

IE, in both these cases, if "you" abilities applied to the Reanimate, it could just say "Each time you defeat..." or "When you defeat..."


Dark Pact also suggests the difference by using the phrase "you" and "your Reanimate" as two separate entities.


Again, the official ruling could be different then I expect, but I would be surprised if it was.


For what it's worth, to answer Scott's post above, I have indeed been playing the Overlord, but in a campaign against my brother, when he picked a Necromancer, I asked him what he thought (making sure not to tell him my opinion); without hesitation he also said that he didn't feel "you" abilities applies to the Reanimate.
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Scott Sanders
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Scott, that is exactly the reading or understanding of the rules I need. I had this trouble with my son, and he believed that he could reroll for his reanimate. I play the Overlord and did not feel that you could reroll for the Reanimate, but trying to back up my belief in the middle of a game session was getting nowhere.

Me telling my son that, "that’s the way it is", does not work on him, as you know with teenage angst. So we rolled a die to decide and he won.

I cannot wait to show the whippersnapper this thread.
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William Smith
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kryth wrote:


Me telling my son that, "that’s the way it is", does not work on him, as you know with teenage angst.

Really? Cause that works for me with my teenaged son every time! JK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hear ya!
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Timothy 'Peachy' Devery
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I agree with sigma as well. You play as a character, so you are Widow Tarha in this example. With a Reanimate, that is a minion. You are not the minion, it just follows your orders. Just like the Overlord is not every single monster he spawns. He is an overarching, well...overlord.

So, when a card says 'you', it is referring to you, the player, who is playing as Widow Tarha, not the Reanimate.

A thematic answer, but an answer, nonetheless.
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Tom H
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Blossercubbles wrote:
So, when a card says 'you', it is referring to you, the player, who is playing as Widow Tarha, character not the Reanimate.
Excuse my quibbling, but I think this is better wording.
 
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Timothy 'Peachy' Devery
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Terah wrote:
Blossercubbles wrote:
So, when a card says 'you', it is referring to you, the player, who is playing as Widow Tarha, character not the Reanimate.
Excuse my quibbling, but I think this is better wording.


It is. The only reason I mentioned Tarha again is due to the subject. Thanks!
 
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Mark McG
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kryth wrote:
Does Widow Tarha's re-roll ability apply to the reanimate attacks as well?


from the FAQ
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent-second...

Q: Can Widow Tarha use her hero ability on attacks made with her Reanimate?
A: No, Widow Tarha’s hero ability only affects her own attack rolls.
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