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Thunderstone Advance: Caverns of Bane» Forums » General

Subject: Card color variation between expansion and original rss

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Tod C.
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This was brought up in another thread, but I think it deserves its own space.

The cards in Caverns of Bane have been altered to more clearly distinguish the types of cards. Blue Hero cards are now more blue, and Village cards are now more green. However, not only did the color change, but the cards are now overall lighter, and carry a washed-out look of the changed color.

Here is a scan of some example cards from each set:



I have two issues with this decision. One, cards from each set are designed to be mixed with each other. My wife and I played the first scenario in the Caverns of Bane rule book, which has a mix of cards on the board. It is very noticeable that the cards do not match. If the saturation of the colors had matched, that might be acceptable, but they do not. Some cards are light, some are dark. For consistency sake I think expansions of a game should match artistically with the base set. The color issue should have been fixed prior to making the base Thunderstone Advance cards, as it was obvious from the first unboxing that one had to be a bit giving to accept that brown was brown, green was green, and so on.

Secondly, the color change just doesn't look professional. The green cards carry a yellow hue through the artwork and through the background of the text area. We have gone from a pinkish art background to a yellowish-orange art background. My wife commented that the new item cards were "ugly" and I have to agree. The lighter cards make reading the already difficult to read text and icons even harder, as well.

I know AEG listens to its fans, and I am a fan of this game. More effort should have been made to properly adjust these cards. There is no reason blue can't be dark blue, and green can't be dark green. Match the saturation levels from the first set to the expansion, but change the hue, and you'll probably find the right combination. And keep the hue changes out of the artwork and text areas. Just the borders!

Overall, this might not be an issue for some people; perhaps I'm just anal about these kinds of things. The game is great, and the new cards add a ton. I'd just like to see it fixed up a bit.
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Dominique Roijen
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I find these color changes unacceptable.

For me it is a reason to not buy Caverns of Bane despite the fact I was really looking forward to it.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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These scans are awful. The Caverns of Bane cards are far better looking in person. It was pretty obvious from the start that the printer botched the first set and printed them too dark. The first set is difficult to read and there is very little differentiation between the different colored cards.

Fact is, the first set is the messed up one and when you see Caverns of Bane in person it'll be very clear because the art really pops now!
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Dominique Roijen
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Hoping for a far better high-res scan then ...
 
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Tod C.
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
These scans are awful. The Caverns of Bane cards are far better looking in person. It was pretty obvious from the start that the printer botched the first set and printed them too dark. The first set is difficult to read and there is very little differentiation between the different colored cards.

Fact is, the first set is the messed up one and when you see Caverns of Bane in person it'll be very clear because the art really pops now!


The cards were all scanned at once, together, on a good quality scanner. You can directly compare the originals to the new. If mine look that bad, then maybe I just have a bad set? The art does not pop...it looks exactly like what you see in the scan.
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Tod C.
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The new CoB cards are in the middle, and a new monster under the old. I'd like to know if these pop like you think they should. You can zoom a bit with the + magnifier. These were all taken as one scan picture, and I can post a higher rez version if you want but all it does is make them bigger. You can't improve color by changing the resolution.

Look at the art on the new curse card compared to the old. It is definitely yellow and lacking proper contrast.
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Sky Zero
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I'll be skipping this expansion. Thanks for the scans.
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Dominique Roijen
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Agree! They shouldn't have touched the colors. Even not by a small margin.

Mixed then up looks really awful now.
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Will M. Baker
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See also: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/9755360#9755360

Color variation aside, I doubt it will be as jarring as playing with TS1-6 cards mixed with TS7-8 cards, which have different template borders. And although the difference isn't ideal, it doesn't distract all that much from the game once we get rolling.
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Tod C.
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darquil wrote:
See also: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/9755360#9755360

Color variation aside, I doubt it will be as jarring as playing with TS1-6 cards mixed with TS7-8 cards, which have different template borders. And although the difference isn't ideal, it doesn't distract all that much from the game once we get rolling.


Yes, I would reiterate that the set is great and we did have a fun time with it. I drove an hour and a half round trip to a local game store just to get it as soon as possible (I was going to wait until GenCon) if that tells you anything. It is definitely worth buying.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Tod, it's hard to really say with a scan because the way something looks on a monitor is different than a printed copy. But comparing to mine, I notice that your new scans all look really washed out. I'm wondering if the texture on the cards is ever-so-slightly different where I can't see it on the cards but the scanner can detect it. My Thorn Caltrops and Curse of War are certainly nowhere near as yellow either. But again, that could just be monitor variations.

The Towers of Ruin printing came in very dark because the printer messed it up. I can say that with confidence because my wife did the graphic design for AEG on the revamp of Thunderstone.

If I recall correctly, they are also changing the background on the items intentionally set by set (I'd like to think at least in part to move away from the pink that many people disliked).
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Tod C.
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Yes, keep in mind the scanner light is reflecting off the texture on the cards, and that adds some additional "noise" into the images. That's why I put cards from each set up for comparison on a single scan. Monitor/scanning differences aside, you can certainly look at the new cards and compare them to the old.

The point is that I have the cards in hand, and these scans (of the actual cards I own, of course) certainly represent the problem accurately. There is a substantial difference between the two sets visually. I didn't put them on the scanner, and then thought, "Hey, these really look different when I scan them." I scanned them to demonstrate that they really do look much different, and not in a positive way.

If your cards look much better than mine, then I need to look into getting a better set. Perhaps I'll bring some when I stop by the AEG booth at GenCon for comparison. Otherwise, the printing could certainly have had much better contrast and depth of black and still differentiated the colors quite well, which I think would be a positive thing overall.

As to putting a yellow tint on all the cards for this set, why? It's not attractive in any way at all. That's something that I just don't understand. The pink was odd, but the yellow/orange is actually worse. I did think that the color of the text background between different types of cards varied in this set, but that is just an illusion. It is definitely more yellow and lighter than the other set, but consistent within the expansion.
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Martin Smith
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They seriously need to sack whoever was responsible for card printing for this game - major balls up from the beginning.

IMO there also should have been a recall for the base set due to the gunk on the cards - what was this stuff ? Most printing chemicals are toxic and I think having cards soaked in them is completely off.
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Dominique Roijen
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I'd really like to hear an official statement from AEG on this subject.

I invested in Thunderstone 1.0. Liked it despite its flaws. Then Thunderstone Advance (2.0) was announced and I loved it. Now this happens.

I really can't make up my mind how a professional company can mess things up this bad!
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Ben Boersma
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Will the base set be reprinted with these new color corrections?
AEG were very kind to send me a replacement for Towers of Ruin, but the cards and the dividers in the replacement set were still fairly gunky. So I would be very interested to see if it will be reprinted without these issues.

If so, I'll grab Caverns when it hits Australian shores.
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Nate Heitz
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This actually bothers people? It would prevent you from picking up the new expansion? I didn't even notice during my first two plays. The most important thing is that the card backs are still the same. So you can't tell the sets apart from the back.
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Tod C.
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Rahlan wrote:
This actually bothers people? It would prevent you from picking up the new expansion? I didn't even notice during my first two plays. The most important thing is that the card backs are still the same. So you can't tell the sets apart from the back.


If you didn't notice then there must be some difference between yours and mine. Within my sets the cards are very different, and obviously mismatched. There is no way a person could look at the layout and not notice it immediately.

The backs of the cards are identical, luckily, so it does not affect gameplay.
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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Color variations like this are difficult to avoid. I don't mind... except that the "lighter" tones essentially change the color coding of the game. Again.

(Especially in the case of the weapons, which are all on a golden background now. "So the old weapons look just like everything else, but the new weapons are on a pink background. Oh, and the new, new weapons are on a golden background.")
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Julien Le Jeune
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This is unacceptable, what a joke! I'm very disappointed.

I already found the expansion to be too pricey, but this just convinced me to not buy it.
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Anthony Martins
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weishaupt wrote:
Color variations like this are difficult to avoid. I don't mind... except that the "lighter" tones essentially change the color coding of the game. Again.

(Especially in the case of the weapons, which are all on a golden background now. "So the old weapons look just like everything else, but the new weapons are on a pink background. Oh, and the new, new weapons are on a golden background.")


I don't know about the yellow tint, but I believe the rest of it was actually a design choice. They wanted to make the colors more distinct. I think the time to have done that was with 2.0... Now we have 2.1? I wonder if future base sets of Advance will also have this new color scheme.

Because the backs are identical, I'm guessing even the yellowizing was chosen... which is weird. I'm sure the illustrators weren't happy with their art getting a yellow touch.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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In case you missed me saying it: Caverns of Bane is the intended color scheme. The printer printed the first set incredibly dark. The items themselves (I'm told) will have a different background per set. Source: My wife is the graphic designer on Thunderstone Advance.
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michael peterson
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KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
In case you missed me saying it: Caverns of Bane is the intended color scheme. The printer printed the first set incredibly dark. The items themselves (I'm told) will have a different background per set. Source: My wife is the graphic designer on Thunderstone Advance.


I can understand that some folks are have very sensitive tastes and colors are important but this is a great game and it is shocking that people would pass up game content because of color schemes. Shocking..
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Julien Le Jeune
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debawv wrote:
KakarisMaelstrom wrote:
In case you missed me saying it: Caverns of Bane is the intended color scheme. The printer printed the first set incredibly dark. The items themselves (I'm told) will have a different background per set. Source: My wife is the graphic designer on Thunderstone Advance.


I can understand that some folks are have very sensitive tastes and colors are important but this is a great game and it is shocking that people would pass up game content because of color schemes. Shocking..


I work in the printing industry, and I find shocking that this passed all the tests and went to mass production altough, as stated above, it was not the intended design. Shocking.

Different strokes.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Well there's a reason why companies say "proudly printed in Germany" and when produced in China it's in fine print.
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Ben Boersma
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So will the first set be reprinted to match the new color and avoid the slimy issue?
 
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