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Red Winter: The Soviet Attack at Tolvajärvi, Finland – 8-12 December 1939» Forums » News

Subject: Contest for best series name idea rss

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Mark Mokszycki
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This topic started out as a question from Björn Hansson here at BGG at the Op Dauntless page, so my thanks go out to Björn for getting the ball rolling.

Then I posted the topic as a contest over on CSW: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?224@@11e4e3ce@.1dd4856a/511

_______________________________________________

Q: Is there a series name for the company-level / grand tactical game series starting with Red Winter and Operation Dauntless?





A: We haven't made a final decision on a series name yet. It turns out that some of my favorite names created acronyms that were a bit too close to games or series already existing in GMT's lineup. I currently have a list of about 15 contenders from different folks, including my own ideas, but I'm not 100% happy with any of them. I think the perfect series name is still out there, and I'll know it when I see it!

I invite everyone to post suggestions here!

A few considerations:

1. The name need not be WWII-specific, as I envision the series eventually reaching Korea. It's probably better if it's not WWII-specific.

2. A name that highlights the company-level / grand tactical scale would be a plus. However...

3. (and here comes the tricky part) it should not start with a 'C' as this would put it too close to Command & Colors (C&C), Combat Commander (CC), etc. So some of the more obvious choices like Company-Level Combat (CLC) are out.

I'm posting for suggestions here because we need to have a series name by the time Op Dauntless goes to print. Thanks for your help!

UPDATE:

I might as well make this a contest and give out a prize. How's this:

If we use your suggestion for a series name, I'll send you a copy of The Polar Bears - Monty's Left Flank (From Normandy to the Relief of Holland with the 49th Division) by Patrick Delaforce, plus Operation Epsom by Lloyd Clark. These two English-language books will give you a nice overview of the battle and help get you in the right mindset for the game. Disclaimer: The "best" name is, of course, completely subjective and the final decision is subject to the fickle whims of myself and the kind folks at GMT. cool

(end cross-posted text)

Thanks for your participation, guys! Post away.
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"L'état, c'est moi."
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Roger's Reviews: check out my reviews page, right here on BGG!
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Courage Under Fire Series
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Scott Henshaw
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Grand Tactical Operations (GTO)



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Rob Francis
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No need for a silly name for the series that tells you nothing about the game other than its "tactical" or to do with "combat".

I say this because the Simonitch games aren't of a particular series, though some call them "'44" and they're some of the finest games out there.

If you need to call them something call them Duckweed. At least then we all know what we are talking about rather than ocs/scs/asl/ats/cc/c&c etc etc etc YAWN! I would rather associate my games with a designer than yet another pointless abbreviation that panders to the masonic-grognard secret club mentality. This is not the 1980s.

"Duckweed" probably describes the tactical experience more than any abbreviation. You're in a tactical situation, under fire, you've found yourself in a pond, cowering from the incoming artillery, covered in duckweed. That is the tactical reality as is "face full of mud", "atheist just found God" or "I think I just crapped my pants".

"Duckweed series of wargames"
"Duckweed series from GMT"


= Awesome!!!
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Gotthard Heinrici (prev. Graf Strachwitz)
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Talvisota Tactical System (TTS)
Operation Dauntless will use the Talvisota System.
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Andreas Lundin
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Company-Level-Infantry-Tank-Operational-Regimental-International-Series...
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ScottH wrote:
lundinandreas wrote:
Company-Level-Infantry-Tank-Operational-Regimental-International-Series...


That just rolls off the tongue.whistle modest






I will delete this in a few minutes, but I felt punny this morning.


I dont think I will let you get away that easily

Very cunning of me, yes?
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You could leverage the credentials of Mr. Berg and call it

GTABOH : Grand Tactical Armed Battles Of History

As good as GBOH, with added T and A.
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Hans Korting
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Tactical Battle Series or Battle Tactics Series.

Each game in the series covers a battle on the tactical scale, showing how tactics are applied in battle.


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Ocean Druen
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Tactical Company Level Simulation
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Timo Ollikainen
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Here's some ideas. Please feel free to vary:

- Guts and Rifles
- Guts and Tactics
- Guts and Courage
- Guts and Honour
- Guts and Frontlines
- Orders and Ammo
- Orders and Enemies
- Rifles and Reinforcements
- For the Homeland
- Unexpeted Victories
- Not Ordinary Men
- Just Ordinary Men
- Battles of Braves
- Dice and Tactics
- Unknown Soldiers



...and the list goes on...
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Dave Langdon
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I quite like the use of the 90 minute turn in the title, the 90 minutes is also ageless regardless of era fought in, its still 90 minutes of combat.

Tactics 90....T90

Grand Tactics 90....GT90

Company Battles 90...CB90 (c yes, but the numeric is unique)

Running with the time is the link....Time on Target...TOT

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Joel Tamburo
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Make it simple....

DA SERIES!

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Bill the Pill
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GTCLWG--Grand Tactical Company-Level WarGame series
 
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Stacey Hager
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I play Combat Commander, and have studied Fighting Formations. When it comes to grognard-ish wargames that's about the depth of my experience. Stuff that has to do with odd's ratios and CRT's? I've been leery of that talk as long as I've been gaming. But...

You've really caught my eye with this series. I've went to town on the rules, and have watched Joel Toppen's excellent hour long overview, as well as Marco's superb review, and i'm sold on the system as a whole. The thought of possibly seeing Guadalcanal played out with these rules is particularly appetizing.


Congrats on a great looking design! The possibility of me ever getting to play is slim, but I will be watching how things develop as a fan.


And to stay on topic...Good grief, this has to be the hardest series to name. Is there a common theme between the installments that is not some play off of the words "Grand Tactical"? A commonality between the system's variants needs to be identified and exploited for the solution.
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Hans Korting
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Guys,

please remember that MMP already has a Grand Tactical Series, TDC/WED and NQoS.
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Mark Mokszycki
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Thanks for continuing to post your ideas, guys!

Stacey, thanks for your kind words and insights. I agree that an exploration of the common thread between games is the way to go.

Really, the only commonality is the scale itself, and the overall design approach and philosophy (which is hard to pin down in a word).

Some random thoughts:

1. One pitfall to avoid is naming the series anything which places it too close to MMP's Grand Tactical Series (GTS). So, for example, if we call the RW/OpD series "Grand Tactics" people are still going to refer to it as the "Grand Tactics series" and it's going to get confused with GTS.

2. One of my earliest favorites was Company Level Combat, but this started with a "C" so it was a no-go.

3. I think the ideal name will be simple, descriptive, and not easily confusable with any pre-existing systems (or start with a "C").

4. A completely different approach would be to go with a name that isn't necessarily descriptive, but really stands out. Rob's idea of calling it the "Duckweed" series certainly falls under this category. While I wouldn't dare call it the Duckweed series (pretty sure GMT wouldn't go for that either) the general approach of picking a name that is highly original, if not descriptive of scale or mechanics, might be a sound one. All just food for thought.

UPDATE: I see Hans beat me to the punch on the MMP series.
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Mark Mokszycki
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Quote:
Talvisota Tactical System (TTS)
Operation Dauntless will use the Talvisota System.


Funny you suggest that, because originally the system was called Talvisota! (exclamation point included in the name) For those who don't know, it means "winter war."

At one point I was discussing the idea of the game series with Andy Lewis at GMT, and I decided (foolishly, entirely on my own) to rewrite the entire Red Winter rules set as a series rule book + game-specific rule book. At this point, the series rule booklet became the Talvisota! series rules, and the other booklet was the Red Winter rules.

The game continued to change and evolve for maybe a year after this. Then at some point we returned to discussions about the direction of the series. We started to discuss the rule book format specifically. The guys at GMT agreed that it was better to keep the rules to a single book and avoid a series rulebook, at least for the time being. So I set out to rewrite the rules yet again, basically from scratch. Now this was totally my own fault for taking it upon myself to put the rules into a series format. But at the time, I really wanted to see how they'd look that way. It turns out that it really doesn't make to much sense to use a series rulebook. The tank/anti-tank systems of Op Dauntless were still in their infancy, and I knew that they'd surely feature prominently in games besides just OpD. So it made sense to put them in the series rules, but they simply weren't ready. There were other problems as well. Some of the basics of Red Winter, such as ski movement and frozen lake terrain, were in fact game-specific. So then the question arose in my mind as to whether the series rules should be for only the Winter War games, or all games using the same scale. The list of problems goes on and I won't bore you with the details. In brief: Redoing the rules so that each game had its own rule book was a good move.

You'd think that rewriting the rules from series format back to game format would be a simple task. You'd be wrong. I couldn't simply go back to using an earlier version of the rules (from before the series rules were created) because far too much had changed with the language itself. A year's worth of proofing plus paring down for brevity and clarity had resulted in a rule book that was very different from the previous year's version. Entire sections had been created, deleted, or reorganized. Every other sentence had changed.

So just how cumbersome was the rewrite? Well, I'll put it this way... Even a few months before the game's publication, we were still locating and correcting the oddball occurrences of "games" (instead of "game") or starting a sentence "In Red Winter..." (duh! To what other game would we be referring?). I think at least one occurrence may have made it into the final printed booklet - but I won't tell you where.
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thierry seguy
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I propose GTGS Grand Tactical Games Serie. It's very simple and evocative.
 
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Stacey Hager
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Cage wrote:
I quite like the use of the 90 minute turn in the title, the 90 minutes is also ageless regardless of era fought in, its still 90 minutes of combat.

Tactics 90....T90

Grand Tactics 90....GT90

Company Battles 90...CB90 (c yes, but the numeric is unique)

Running with the time is the link....Time on Target...TOT



These are nice. I like the sound of Tactics 90, and Company Tactics 90 even better. That name is good enough for me to make an exception to the C rule.( if it were my final call).
 
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I'm also prefering a non traditional approach to the naming the series and would be glad to see something different than in my previous post

Anyway I would not recommend to use the word Talvisota. It might sound cool for some of you (?), but it's a name of a specific war between two nations and is not compareable to the words like "Blitzgrieg", if you know what I mean. Talvisota tactics in Guadalcanal is sounding a bit strange. At least to a finn like me

If you want to take something from the Talvisota topic, please try to figure out a word or phrase that refers to "Talvisodan henki" (Spirit of the Winter War) and is easy to assosiate to any forthcoming game in series. From my point of view (have served in finnish military and grandparents that served/survived the Winter War) this is the part that Red Winter system nicely captures.
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It is a good habit to name a series after the first title.
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Björn Hansson
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Igorekz wrote:
It is a good habit to name a series after the first title.


Yes, Red Winter Series is quite nice. But perhaps a bit misleading with the whole "winter" part.
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Ok so how about something like;

"Ice & Fire" system. < Elemental = Cool

The"Dauntless"system/series. < Less specific than "Red Winter series" and therefore more appropriate for what I hope will be a vast and wide ranging series.

The more I think about "Dauntless" the more I like it.

I win?

Dauntless tactics and ops series
Dauntless tactical System
Dauntless operational combat system
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duckweed wrote:

Quote:
Talvisota Tactical System (TTS)
Operation Dauntless will use the Talvisota System.


You'd think that rewriting the rules from series format back to game format would be a simple task. You'd be wrong. I couldn't simply go back to using an earlier version of the rules (from before the series rules were created) because far too much had changed with the language itself. A year's worth of proofing plus paring down for brevity and clarity had resulted in a rule book that was very different from the previous year's version. Entire sections had been created, deleted, or reorganized. Every other sentence had changed.


Mark,
As for the rules, your practice writing and re-writing them paid of very well; Red Winter has a great rule set.
Apart from the rules, it is a fantastic gaming experience. I look forward to Operation Dauntless and Tolvajaervi II and keep the games of the XXX series coming!
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