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Subject: Heat the film - Verdict? rss

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Liam
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So I'm watching Heat. I've seen it at least 4 times - what an odd film. All in all I'm not impressed - yet an awesome cast and some very memorable scenes.

Anyway you folks can call it:

Poll
Heat the Film? Why it's....
Masterpiece - Where else is action and emotion so perfectly married?
Brilliant stuff - a crime drama to end all crime dramas.
Good Stuff - Good stuff but has some odd domestic moments.
Enjoyable stuff - Lighten up its an action film with a wink at emotion.
Ok - It's balanced overall with awful and clever moments.
Cynical stuff - A fair action film torpedoed by cynical OTT scenes.
Meh - A desperate script saved in moments by skilled people.
Shite - A desperate script killed by old actors playing tropes.
      47 answers
Poll created by monkeyhandz
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Robert Wesley
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If you happen to "Like" this, then you may also enjoy: "Righteous Kill" whistle
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Tim Thorp
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If it's the Michael Mann movie, then a masterpiece (one of the best movies of the 90's, IMHO); if it's the Burt Reynolds movie, then pretty good popcorn fare.
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Knock knock open up the door it's Riel
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Masterpiece. A favorite part is when Moby's New Dawn Fades kicks in.
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CJ
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It's an enjoyable film but unfortunately I can't take the major scene - the bank shootout - seriously since I started handling firearms and so I enjoy it less than I did when I was a civilian.
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Rob
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I have to say your OP is a study in contradictions. The film has an awesome cast and some very memorable scenes. But overall you're not impressed and you've watched it at least four times? I guess I'm not really asking how all that makes sense - because I can have a number of reactions to a single film - but it's still a bit puzzling.
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J Boyes
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I just remember seeing it in the theater and falling asleep. It might have been bad, or I might have been sleepy.
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Key Locks
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Adam Meledeo
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It's my favorite movie. I've probably seen it 20 times; not as many as some other movies I've seen, but you don't want to overdo it.

I wish I could get away with the Jon Voight hair and moustache combo.

Also, when the Moby starts up I just about lose it every time.
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(Chuck Singer)
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I just watched it again recently and like it well enough, but I don't think its anywhere near a masterpiece. It has some great scenes for sure; I especially love the scene when Al Pacino is at the docks and realizes he has been played, the last scene with Val Kilmer, and any scene with De Niro and Judging Amy.

I do think the movie has too much fat on it and could stand to lose 20 or 30 minutes to tighten it up. I also think Al Pacino hams up a couple scenes too much. These 2 things keep it from being great for me.
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The idea of Pacino & Deniro in the same movie is better than the reality of them in the same movie.
(Godfather II does not count, as they did not have any scenes together.)

And honestly, do the kids care about either Pacino or Deniro anymore?
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The Steak Fairy
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What a shame nobody's talking about the Andy Warhol film of the same name. It came long before either of the others mentioned thus far. It was also much better than either of the others mentioned.
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Eugene
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Andy Warhol's is the only Heat I was familiar with. Just shows you how tuned-in I am.
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John Hathorn
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Can we talk about which Red Heat is better now? This Red Heat or this Red Heat?
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Tim Thorp
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MisterCranky wrote:
What a shame nobody's talking about the Andy Warhol film of the same name. It came long before either of the others mentioned thus far. It was also much better than either of the others mentioned.


Nuh uh.
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Alex H.
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GROGnads wrote:
If you happen to "Like" this, then you may also enjoy: "Righteous Kill" whistle


... or not (as was the case for me).
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Joshua Wright
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elgin_j wrote:
It's an enjoyable film but unfortunately I can't take the major scene - the bank shootout - seriously since I started handling firearms and so I enjoy it less than I did when I was a civilian.


I can't speak to the actual handling of the firearms seeing as how I've never shot a gun, but I think I remember reading somewhere that that scene is/was used during some police training sessions to demonstrate how to handle a potential urban shootout situation because it was deemed pretty accurate. Maybe they were just talking about the tactics displayed?
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Liam
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I'd be astounded if this is the case - One of the most unrealistic scenes ever IMO. (good fun from an action viewpoint though)

The police are a terrible shot with only Stormtroopers being worse. Meanwhile AP has a submachine gun / wee assault rifle - is that standard issue? The police totally fail to surround the baddies and somehow AP is required to head off on his own - where is the air support, snipers and swat?
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Key Locks
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monkeyhandz wrote:
I'd be astounded if this is the case - One of the most unrealistic scenes ever IMO. (good fun from an action viewpoint though)

The police are a terrible shot with only Stormtroopers being worse.

I haven't seen the film, and I don't know if you've ever shot a handgun before, but if you haven't you might be surprised at how difficult it is to be accurate with one.
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Liam
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Never shot a hand gun but am piss poor with a rifle so I'll take your word for it. Can we agree on blasters though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqT1lCqQyh0&feature=fvwrel
(NSFW Guns a tad of fing and jeffing.)
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Joshua Wright
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monkeyhandz wrote:
I'd be astounded if this is the case - One of the most unrealistic scenes ever IMO. (good fun from an action viewpoint though)

The police are a terrible shot with only Stormtroopers being worse. Meanwhile AP has a submachine gun / wee assault rifle - is that standard issue? The police totally fail to surround the baddies and somehow AP is required to head off on his own - where is the air support, snipers and swat?


Maybe they couldn't handle... The Heat (wakka wakka)
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CJ
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monkeyhandz wrote:
I'd be astounded if this is the case - One of the most unrealistic scenes ever IMO. (good fun from an action viewpoint though)

The police are a terrible shot with only Stormtroopers being worse. Meanwhile AP has a submachine gun / wee assault rifle - is that standard issue? The police totally fail to surround the baddies and somehow AP is required to head off on his own - where is the air support, snipers and swat?


This is a very good comment. I'll go further and add why I was unhappy with the actual weapons usage as I have no knowledge of urban fighting from a law enforcement perspective:

The actors are using weapons on full auto (which is hugely inaccurate at anything over 30-40m due to the recoil forcing the barrel upwards).

They are running around (raising their heartbeat and breathing and making aiming more difficult) .

They are firing from the standing position (which is really fucking hard and virtually impossible to do accurately after a few seconds).

They throw their weapons around like baseball bats, including through 180 degrees, as though there would be no discernible loss of accuracy.

There is a total absence of fire-and-movement to suppress the opposing force and either facilitate extraction or an assault.

If my recollection is correct they also manage to fire an awful amount of rounds from their weapons without the need for a reload (assault rifle with a 30-round magazine fired on full auto will empty its magazine in a few seconds).

All of which they do without any serious regard for cover from fire (so an effective firer would have started dropping targets within seconds).

The main characters are all protrayed as highly capable and experienced professionals. It requires a major leap of faith to suppose that they do not understand basic tenets of marksmanship and would enter such a scenario without extensive knowledge effective tactics.

In other words, it looks very fancy but is a complete unreality. Pure movie fantasy. When I knew no better I could enjoy it for what it is - that is no longer the case. The shoot-out scene is obviously the key scene for the movie and when you remove it (or find it to be bollocks) then the movie suffers as a consequence.

The only real query I have is whether Michael Mann is genuinely ignorant of how weapon systems are appropriately employed or whether he didn't care in favour of cinematic effect (which I don't deny the scene has).
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Alex H.
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I think it looks like a very clear decision to favor the cinematic effect over realism. For the sake of the dramatic arch I am willing to accept it. Michael Mann has shown in different movies that he can be quite realistic but Heat needed an intense and kinetic shootout. A realistic one would probably have resembled more the sniper scene (as far as tempo and sense of drama goes) in Full Metal Jacket and would have slowed the movie down at a moment when it had to gather momentum.

Still, C J's points are all very valid and I would add that there is no way for the robbers to reasonably carry the amount of ammo they get to shoot once the action starts.
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