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Subject: Turn marker? Are actions hidden? Are Favorites part of your hand? rss

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Tom Chick
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Just got my copy today! w00t! Three questions based on my initial reading of the rules:

1) Is there no ingame representation of what turn you're playing? Shouldn't there be a turn marker that advances up the score track/turn track, or am I missing something?

2) During the Action Selection phase, are actions public? In other words, am I putting my actions (via luminaries and action cards) face up for all to see? In which case, isn't it possible that a game could theoretically hang because some players want to wait and see what other players are doing?

Or is there some mechanic whereby these are supposed to be hidden until the action commences in the Action Resolution Phase? In which case, how does this work, given that the action cards and luminaries have different backs?

I'm a bit confused about how it's supposed to work, and either way seems to have potential pitfalls.

3) I'm a bit confused about there being three places on the leader board for Favorites. Is the idea that the Favorites sit here until I use them? In which case my opponent knows if I'm holding a favorite back for his response, or if I've invested him in an action as an enhancement and/or to contribute his ratings?

-Tom
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Robert Johnson
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As for the turn marker - I was thinking you could just remove the census marker each turn.

I remember reading the term "reveal" in there quite a bit - I'm guessing face down.
 
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Tom Chick
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The census markers don't come into play until the fifth turn. Unless I'm missing something, it looks like there's no ingame way to mark time. Which isn't a big deal -- I can just stick a penny on the turn track or something -- but it's an odd oversight.

-Tom
 
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Robert Johnson
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Ah I see.

I'm thinking of using the first turn marker - has a nice contrast on the board. I'll just find another item for 1st player designation.
 
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Steven Durst
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txrobpam wrote:
As for the turn marker - I was thinking you could just remove the census marker each turn.

I remember reading the term "reveal" in there quite a bit - I'm guessing face down.


This is what I'm planning on doing.
 
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James Deignan
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Solution for the absence of a turn marker:

Use "late stage" turn markers for the "pre-early" turns (1-3), ignoring their effects. Once you've reached turn four, the first turn where a real "early turn" census marker is revealed, all the "late turn" census markers will be available to be distributed randomly as in set up.

A more elegant solution might be to cannibalize an unused generic marker from another game and use it as a turn marker. One probably should have been included as a component to the game. Or they should have given us "pre-early turn" markers for the turn track to remove just to keep track.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you got the metal coins on Kickstarter, you could use one of the cardboard coins as a turn marker.

 
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Francisco Pizarro
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Hi Tom,

Sorry for the delay in replying. I literally got home from WBC late-late last night and my brain is a bit like oatmeal.

Answers below:

1) Is there no ingame representation of what turn you're playing? Shouldn't there be a turn marker that advances up the score track/turn track, or am I missing something?

We decided not to include a turn marker because you really only need it for the first three turns. France always starts, so it's pretty easy to keep track of the first three. After that, you simply remove the tile on the turn track which reveals whether or not there is a census. (spots 4-9 are always open info in this regard). When that turn is over just remove that tile off the track.

If we had it to do over again we'd make tiles that simply said 1, 2, 3 and had you pull those off the first three turns. (An idea given to us by someone who played it at WBC this weekend. A very good idea.) But we felt that using a turn marker for such an abbreviated part of the track and then removing it was a bit clunky.

Of course, push comes to shove, you can always use a penny.

Kidding aside, we never ran into an issue during testing because the census markers keep track of things as the game progresses.

2) During the Action Selection phase, are actions public? In other words, am I putting my actions (via luminaries and action cards) face up for all to see? In which case, isn't it possible that a game could theoretically hang because some players want to wait and see what other players are doing?

No, actions are not public. You create your stack of luminaries and place them face down below the slot on your leader mat and then place your action card on top of that (leader portrait face up).

When it is your turn you reveal your action and the luminaries in the stack and if it's an attack you declare the amount of coin you are using and if you are using an enhancement. (one per action only)

I'm a bit confused about how it's supposed to work, and either way seems to have potential pitfalls.


I hope that helped. If it's still unclear let me know.

3) I'm a bit confused about there being three places on the leader board for Favorites. Is the idea that the Favorites sit here until I use them? In which case my opponent knows if I'm holding a favorite back for his response, or if I've invested him in an action as an enhancement and/or to contribute his ratings?


Yeah, this is a bit ambiguous. The spot on the mat is really there as a place to exhaust favorites. You may keep favs in your hand if you like. You get to use those powerful luminaries every turn so we wanted a spot where you could effectively signal that you had used one on that turn. I know the rules say to place them on your mat, but that is meant just as a setup phase option to show that you have all three and are finished drafting.

You can play it either way, really, as long as everyone agrees. We have seen players play with the favorites placed face up on the mat for all to see and also as "hidden until used". It's up to the players. I personally like to keep them hidden and placed on the mat when exhausted.

Hope that helped. I will be posting a brief FAQ and rules clarification thread later this morning based off the plays at WBC.

--bill
 
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Tom Chick
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Thanks for the answers, Bill. But I'm still a little fuzzy on how the action stacks are supposed to work.

So the stacks are assembled in secret and placed face down in the appropriate spots for action 1, action 2/census, and taxes. So far, so good.

But you mention putting action cards on the top of the stack. Doesn't this mean that other players will always know whether an action is based on a nation card (i.e. attack, diplomacy, reorganization) or a luminary? Since the nation cards have different backs than the luminary cards, it seems a bit odd that certain actions are so clearly telegraphed. Is that intentional?

-Tom
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Francisco Pizarro
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I see what you are getting at now. Yes, it is intentional. Earlier designs of the game had a cover card (called Bluff) but in the end we felt it played better with this bit of limited information. Is he attacking? Reorganizing? Conducting Diplomacy? If not, what luminary is he using?

The luminaries do so many different things that while it is telegraphed that a player isn't doing a basic attack action..it's not clear what they have up their sleeve. I personally like playing without the "bluff" card but if you'd rather play with a bluff cover card just use the Diplomacy card (or any card that you couldn't possibly use with the chosen luminary) as a bluff when using a luminary action.

 
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Teik Chooi Oh
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hmm we played with Action card hidden under a luminary ie Attacks were secret till revealed!
 
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