Daniel Vago
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We had a problem with wording on one aspect of this haunt and our particular situation.

Heroes are trying to play the right song on the organ, accumulating points until they reach a certain amount and thus play the right song.

To accumulate those points what I did in this situation was count discovered rooms with omen-symbols in them, get points from the characters hobby, points from the "book" and the last part (one thing you can always do) is do a knowledge trait roll to get the last points you need.

The problem was with the wording from the traitors book. She had discovered a certain room and had completed her own knowledge roll in there, which subtracted 3 from the knowledge roll made by heroes trying to play the right song.

The first part of the traitor specification said that she had made it harder to play the right song and thus 3 points were subtracted when trying to play the song, but the last part specified that it was to be subtracted from the hero's knowledge roll, not the total and/or attempt.

This wouldn't have been a problem, but I wasn't doing a knowledge roll to get my points, I was using "Angels Feather" (instead of doing a knowledge roll call out a number which is the result).

My understanding is that she made it harder to play the song by making the knowledge roll portion harder, but I didn't use a knowledge roll I skipped to the result of the roll and got the action. She was sure it was to be subtracted from the total because Angels Feather counts as my knowledge roll.

So who is right here?

And what if I had enough points from everything else and didn't need a knowledge roll, would it still subtract from the total?

Does the "knowledge roll" mean the whole action of trying to play the right song, or does it simply mean the actual knowledge roll I could do as part of getting the points needed?
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C Strayer
United States
Pennsylvania
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Welcome to BGG, Overmindzor. Unfortunately, I'm pretty confident that the Traitor got it right here.

I looked up Haunt 32 in the (first-edition) revised tomes. In those, it looks like it's always a "roll", but the book, hobby, etc bonuses add to the roll. (In fact, they're pretty necessary if there are 5 or 6 players: 8 HotH dice can only roll up to 16.)

The Traitor stuck the Heroes with a -3 bonus to working out the dimensional transport. [How dare she?] So: +2 from book, +2 from hobby, +Omens from the Omen icons, -3 from Traitor sabotaging, and then whatever the Hero can do on a Knowledge roll. Hopefully the roll goes high enough.

You used the Angel Feather. That lets its user call a desired result (0-8, regardless of the amount of dice which would otherwise be involved--this can be limiting if you have more than 4 dice) rather than actually rolling the dice when asked to make a roll. Raw determinism can be surprisingly useful.

Unfortunately, the Feather still counts as actually making the relevant roll. Despite the fact that you didn't actually roll dice, the Traitor's sabotage still takes effect, and would even if one somehow got enough bonuses to pass the check with 0 on the actual roll.

[One would need at least 3 Omen icons, *every* other bonus available, and no sabotage to achieve that, incidentally...and that's with 3 total players. Seems unlikely.]

So, to be clear: the "Knowledge roll" I believe you're referencing is the actual physically-play-the-organ part of playing the right song. It is the whole action, and the Traitor's sabotage makes it harder to accomplish.
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Michael Z
Australia
Rockhampton
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Overmindzor wrote:
This wouldn't have been a problem, but I wasn't doing a knowledge roll to get my points, I was using "Angels Feather" (instead of doing a knowledge roll call out a number which is the result).

My understanding is that she made it harder to play the song by making the knowledge roll portion harder, but I didn't use a knowledge roll I skipped to the result of the roll and got the action. She was sure it was to be subtracted from the total because Angels Feather counts as my knowledge roll.

So who is right here?


It is still a "roll" even though you didn't actually roll the dice. The Angel Feather card clearly states it replaces the roll, not let you choose the outcome of teh result. Modifiers are applied after the roll, so both positive and negative modifiers should be made after you declare your "8".
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Karasu Gamma
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The way we play this haunt is that the traitor's sabotage actually adds 3 to the heroes' required goal, instead of subtracting from the result; it makes absolutely no difference to the number, but it keeps things easier to understand.
 
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