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Subject: In Need of a Game Fix rss

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The Bane
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I can't get enough Rallyman and Rallyman: Dirt. So, how would one go about starting a Play by Forum race?

The Bane
 
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Doug Adams
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Go and play in the WRC at www.rallyman.fr.

Finland this month!
 
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The Bane
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Yea, I tried to figure out how to get in on that, but the site just looses me...

The Bane
 
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Cameron Chien
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There's also some people who compete there who are very very lucky with regards to rolling cautions.

I'd love to compete with the same tracks here, where, based on the last time we did some play-by-forum here, people are a lot more honest.

Cameron
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The Bane
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So, what would it take to do just that? Can we? I would be up for soloing those tracks and posting results. Heck, I could probably do them all through August by the end of this month. I just don't know all the particulars. Heck, I wouldn't mind putting on my own six stage race (ES1-ES6) if there was enough interest.

The Bane
 
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Brian Hornberger
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Set up some courses bane , I would love to play some and am very honest (to a fault). DAMN YOU DICE!!!!!!
 
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Sean Tompkins
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1st gear 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution} -> ( Caution) -> Caution

I'm in. If we wanted, we could even record die rolls here on the geek, using "custom die" -- I made the above roll with a die labeled 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution}
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  • 165043. seanp
  • 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution} =
  • ( Caution) =
  • Caution
  • 1st gear
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 4:28 am
Doug Adams
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seanp wrote:
seanp previously rolled 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution} = ( Caution) = Caution (1st gear)

I'm in. If we wanted, we could even record die rolls here on the geek, using "custom die" -- I made the above roll with a die labeled 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution}


Only one Caution on 1st gear
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  • 165054. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution} =
  • ( Good) =
  • Good
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 4:44 am
Sean Tompkins
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dougadamsau wrote:
seanp wrote:
seanp previously rolled 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution} = ( Caution) = Caution (1st gear)

I'm in. If we wanted, we could even record die rolls here on the geek, using "custom die" -- I made the above roll with a die labeled 1custom6{Good;Good;Good;Good;Caution;Caution}


Only one Caution on 1st gear


Yeah, I realized that afterward - just wanted to try an example of the custom die!

1custom6{1;1;1;1;1;Caution}
1custom6{5;5;5;5;Caution;Caution}

Another option here - of course, rolling one die at a time would take a lot of posts!!
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Doug Adams
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Very cool - didn't know you could do custom die rolls here.

Edit... crashed in 5th. Took a while. Not sure how to roll them all at once.
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  • 165068. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{1;1;1;1;Caution;Caution} =
  • ( Caution) =
  • Caution
  • 1st
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 5:03 am
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  • 165069. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{G;G;G;G;G;Caution} =
  • ( G) =
  • G
  • Gas
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 5:03 am
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  • 165070. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{G;G;G;G;G;Caution} =
  • ( G) =
  • G
  • Gas
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 5:03 am
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  • 165071. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{2;2;2;2;Caution;Caution} =
  • ( Caution) =
  • Caution
  • 2nd
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 5:03 am
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  • 165072. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{3;3;3;3;Caution;Caution} =
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  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 5:04 am
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  • 165073. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{4;4;4;4;Caution;Caution} =
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  • 4th
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 5:05 am
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  • 165074. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{5;5;5;5;Caution;Caution} =
  • ( Caution) =
  • Caution
  • 5th
  • Mon Aug 6, 2012 5:06 am
Cameron Chien
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I can just download the current WRC stages, and translate any special rules for them, and we can just play here.

Cameron
 
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Jean-Christophe Bouvier
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TheBane wrote:
Yea, I tried to figure out how to get in on that, but the site just looses me...

The Bane

Whats your name on the website ? I can help you to create agin if there's a probelm.

A lot of road books here : http://www.rallyman.fr/fr/gamme-rallyman/mrc-1-144-2.html

In France there are the rallies on the website and with 12 gamers we play in all France, we sent the times to and one of us who makes the ranking, we are not so fast as on the website ....
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The Bane
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Zeede wrote:
I can just download the current WRC stages, and translate any special rules for them, and we can just play here.

Cameron


This is an interesting option. Not to mention that the players here could compare there time to the .fr site. I was looking at custom dice roller, but I lean more toward the 'honor system', figuring if you want to cheat, why would you bother even playing?

I also kind of like the idea of a track a week, where the best time posted by the end of the week posts their track. So if you win, you can design the next week's track. There doesn't have to be a weekly cutoff for posting times. You could complete several weeks worth of tracks on any given weekend, you just don't get to design the next track. Make sense? That's assuming there is interest in designing tracks.

I also was thinking that it might be interesting if whoever designed the track got and posted the results. So if I won week 7, I would design a track for week 8 and would be responsible for maintaining the times for week 8 until the end of the year. But then I realized you can 'edit' old posts. I suppose it would be better to have one race coordinator anyways.

Glancing at all the other threads here, which I honestly didn't see when I posted this thread, it doesn't appear that PbF is very successful. They start with a bang and end with a whimper. To that end, I am considering either starting a blog or wiki where I could put up tracks, competitors can email me their times and rolls, and I can update the blog/wiki.

My questions I suppose then are:

1) New tracks or .fr tracks?
2) How often for a new track?
3) No limit on 'closing' a track for times, except the end of the 'season'?
4) Pass the next track design on to the winner?
5) Honor system rolls?
6) Off site wiki/blog for posting of next 'open' track and scores?
7) What have I missed?

Best,
The Bane
 
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The Bane
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jcbouvier wrote:
TheBane wrote:
Yea, I tried to figure out how to get in on that, but the site just looses me...

The Bane

Whats your name on the website ? I can help you to create agin if there's a probelm.

A lot of road books here : http://www.rallyman.fr/fr/gamme-rallyman/mrc-1-144-2.html

In France there are the rallies on the website and with 12 gamers we play in all France, we sent the times to and one of us who makes the ranking, we are not so fast as on the website ....


To be honest, I never made an account. After perusing the site I understood so little of it that I didn't feel compelled to signup. There is also the issue of the forums. Part of the appeal of doing something like this, for me, is the interaction of racing, comparing times, boasting, encouraging others, etc. If I can't utilize the forums do to a language barrier, it kind of loses its appeal for me.

Thanks for the offer though,
The Bane
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Doug Adams
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I don't think you need an account to participate in the MRC, at least I don't recall ever creating one.

But, I really like the idea of running an English speaking equivalent here. Just run it in parallel, using the pre-designed courses, in synch with the French one. They run 3 stages a fortnight, the entire 6 stage rally completing at the end of the calendar month.

The fact we could share our stages in English is motivation enough. A couple of times I've finished a stage carrying a door and a steering wheel across the line, but how can I put that in French on the rallyman forums?

The down side is a lot of the stages this year require the DIRT expansion, and not every driver would have that.
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Cameron Chien
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Google translator is also not that great with French. You CAN translate the comments the French drivers are making, but a lot of it doesn't really make that much sense.

DIRT is a must-have, IMO. However, I can dig up the stages from last year, none of which use the dirt tracks. We can still use the Mark II snow tires.

The issue I had with this year's WRC is that it appears that players are utilizing the double-downshift A LOT on the dirt and snow tracks, and that is fine, except that many of them are double-downshifting while time attacking. If you roll a caution on the gear die you're double-downshifting to, you lose control and spin out. Yet somehow these guys are time attacking (at the mercy of the 1/3rd chance of rolling a caution) their double-downshifts, and doing it seven or eight times in a row.

I'm sorry, but the odds are just too low that they didn't roll a single caution once. It just wasn't fun for me anymore once it became apparent that people were cheating. I placed 2nd last year, so I REALLY wanted to win this year, but I'm not going to do it by cheating.

It's a 8.8% chance that you can double-downshift six turns in a row w/o rolling a single caution, which is feasible, but not four or five stages in a row. At some point the odds catch up.

Cameron
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Doug Adams
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Zeede wrote:
The issue I had with this year's WRC is that it appears that players are utilizing the double-downshift A LOT on the dirt and snow tracks, and that is fine, except that many of them are double-downshifting while time attacking. If you roll a caution on the gear die you're double-downshifting to, you lose control and spin out. Yet somehow these guys are time attacking (at the mercy of the 1/3rd chance of rolling a caution) their double-downshifts, and doing it seven or eight times in a row.


You have to double downshift to do well on the DIRT supported courses, but I always spend a time attack second to make that double downshift die "safe". I almost never time attack when I plan to double downshift.

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Cameron Chien
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Exactly Doug, same here. Yet people are finishing with over 100% time attack, which means they weren't securing their double-downshifts with a time token.

Unless I've been playing incorrectly all this time, you cannot spend a second to secure your double-downshift (say from 5th to 3rd gear) and then roll the rest of your dice to time attack.

Cameron
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Doug Adams
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That's how I play it.

You understand that "Taux attack" column? I could never work out what it represented.
 
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Cameron Chien
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That's the percentage of time attack. It's not completely accurate because you only know how many time tokens people ended the stage with, but given how some of these guys drive, they never spend a single one.

So, for example, let's say a stage is 140 spaces (counting inside corner spaces, not the extra drift spaces). If you end up with 140 time tokens, you will end up with 100% Taux Attaque. If you use all of the drift spaces and end up with 147 time tokens, you would be at 105% Taux Attaque.

This is why I'm saying some people are cheating. There's no way you get that high of a Taux Attaque unless you are time attacking every single turn, which means they're magically not rolling cautions for who knows how many turns and stages in a row.

You only get one Ace Driver for every three stages.

Cameron
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Doug Adams
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Ah, so it's a percentage of net time tokens vs course distance. Makes sense, thanks! I replaced Ace Driver with Sisu, but again only once per 3 stages.

I'm off to go and look at my Greece results again!
 
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Patryk Fechna
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Ahh, finally a thread about the MRC Championship and the obvious cheating going on there. I started in last months Acropolis rally. After Day One I was in 15th position (of 30 starters) what was a good position in my opinion. I drove cautiously, but not overly secure. I spend seconds on every double downshift and to secure high jumps that really make you "fly" through some of the stages. But I also had to use the Sisu card on the last klicks of SS2. So a pretty normal run in terms of risk but because the nature of dirt double-downshifting AND jumps I ended up with 32% Taux attaque after the combined 3 special stages. That was the lowest taux attaque rate from all competitors, the other three lowest rates were 44%, 45% and 48%, all drivers outside the top 15. The drivers in first, second and third had taux attaque rates of 90%, 87% and 77% while the average of all drivers were 78%. shakewhistle

I withdrew immediatly since it´s no fun when you know someone is obviously cheating, but you don´t know who and, more important, how much. So you basically have no idea what your time´s worth, and isn´t that the whole point of an internet competition?

I´m not saying that they are ALL cheating, and maybe I´m just a bad, bad driver, but I can´t see a reason why I should enter this competition again.

My suggestion: Creating a championship where everyone has to sent VASSAL logfiles. It would be still possible to repeat your move, but that would solve the "choosing-randomly-how-lucky-you-roll"- problem.

P.S.: I´d love to become last in a race where I know no one is cheating. Because I could set my self the goal of becoming second-to-last. Otherwise it´s just pointless.
 
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The Bane
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"Ahh, finally a thread about the MRC Championship and the obvious cheating going on there."

So now I see why a PbF game has never taken off, since the OP (me) started the thread off with, "I can't get enough Rallyman and Rallyman: Dirt. So, how would one go about starting a Play by Forum race?"

I started reading where I left off (my last post) and had to scroll back up to the top to make sure I was in the right thread. I wasn't poking a finger at anyone in particular with my first quote, it was just the last in the thread, and like so many others before it, had nothing to do with us starting a season of Rally racing here...



The Bane
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Doug Adams
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So let's start a PBF race then!

All we have to do is agree on a set of courses, and post our times. Honesty system applies, as I think die rolling would be too cumbersome.

Collate the results as they come in on a placeholder post on top of the PBF thread.

Shall we begin with the current Rally of Finland?

http://www.rallyman.fr/images/fichiers/roadbooks/rallyman-fi...

d10-1 A week to run the first three stages.
d10-2 Post results for comparison.
d10-3 Then run the next three stages over the second week.
d10-4 Declare Zeede the winner.
d10-5 No cheating.
d10-6 One SISU or Ace Driver card allowed per three stages
d10-7 Assistance and tyre changes allowed after each stage.

(testing the die roller one last time)
1st Gear 1custom6{1;1;1;1;1;!} = ( 1) = 1
2nd Gear 1custom6{2;2;2;2;!;!} = ( 2) = 2
3rd Gear 1custom6{3;3;3;3;!;!} = ( 3) = 3
4th Gear 1custom6{4;4;4;4;!;!} = ( 4) = 4
5th Gear 1custom6{5;5;5;5;!;!} = ( 5) = 5
Gas 1custom6{G;G;G;G;G;!} -> ( G) -> G
Gas 1custom6{G;G;G;G;G;!} -> ( G) -> G
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  • 165983. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{3;3;3;3;!;!} =
  • ( 3) =
  • 3
  • 3rd Gear
  • Wed Aug 8, 2012 5:15 am
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  • 165984. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{4;4;4;4;!;!} =
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  • Wed Aug 8, 2012 5:18 am
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  • 165985. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{5;5;5;5;!;!} =
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  • 165986. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{1;1;1;1;1;!} =
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  • 165987. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{2;2;2;2;!;!} =
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  • 165991. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{G;G;G;G;G;!} =
  • ( G) =
  • G
  • Gas
  • Wed Aug 8, 2012 5:25 am
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  • 165992. dougadamsau
  • 1custom6{G;G;G;G;G;!} =
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  • Gas
  • Wed Aug 8, 2012 5:25 am
Patryk Fechna
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"My suggestion: Creating a championship where everyone has to sent VASSAL logfiles. It would be still possible to repeat your move, but that would solve the "choosing-randomly-how-lucky-you-roll"- problem.

P.S.: I´d love to become last in a race where I know no one is cheating. Because I could set my self the goal of becoming second-to-last. Otherwise it´s just pointless."


Sorry, can´t see much OT here.

I made a suggestion about how a championship could be monitored against cheating and expressed interest in starting in such a competition.
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